Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin • Hacker News Board

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#51

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #29

What you're seeing is car companies trying to transition to "mobility" companies -- the difference being the former is a manufacturing company with 3% margins and the latter being a services company with much fatter margins. Autonomous car fleets are the main "mobility services" prize of course -- all the major OEMs have autonomous research labs -- but you're seeing more interest in scooters and bikes (there was a he…

No, I don't think this is a transition.

What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends.

In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad.

The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well enough. Truly - what % of people could actually commute using these things? It's very small. Of those, who would actually do it? In winter? Up and down hills? Are they a little bit too old for this, or maybe not so open minded? Are there status issues, i.e. if you are a 'serious professional' in many industries it just doesn't bode well to be bouncing around on a scooter (I know this might seem foreign maybe to HN readers but this is a thing). And then of course - if it was useful for commuting, why wouldn't people just end up buying one so they always have it when needed? I think the use cases for these scooters is very narrow.

While I agree the general attitude of 'moving beyond traditional cars' is a strategic impetus, and it makes a lot of sense to 'participate' in these things early on ... I don't think this is a secular shift. Not yet anyhow.

America is a very spread out place - even LA.

And we're only just starting to see the regulatory and populist backlash.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#52

Post by repsilat » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #30

notatoad wrote: post #22

>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place) the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying "scooters belong in the bike lane", then they have to confront the fact that their cities have no cohesive network of bike lanes that can actually support a real journey. This has been acceptable up until now, because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just r…

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law.

Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#53

Post by whoisjuan » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

First Chariot and now Spin (also investments and partnerships with Lyft and Zoom Car in India). Seems like Ford is betting on a future where they see people rejecting the idea of owning a car and where car companies are just mobility providers.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#54

Post by yayitswei » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

Congrats to the Spin team!

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#55

Post by clairity » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

i'll reiterate my favored solution (for urban areas): turn parking lanes into protected bike/scooter lanes. that solves the safety problem both ways (cars on one side and pedestrians on the other).

until then i'm fine with scooters being encouraged (but not forced) to use less busy roads, and tolerating them on sidewalks for major roads without bike lanes.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#56

Post by komali2 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #37

komali2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody follows these rules. Whenever a skater is coming at me I very much get a "get the fuck out of my way, peasant" vibe. That's why I believe they should be enforceable rules aka laws.

I follow them. You really have no choice if you care about your own and others safety.

Well, thank you, that's very good, but that doesn't exactly solve the problem.

I'm a hard-line rule following bicyclist, but I have no control over the other cyclists that blast past me at red lights. What are we supposed to do, render our nonexistent authority over them? I suppose I can say "please don't do that," but I try that and it has no effect.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#57

Post by komali2 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

repsilat wrote: post #52

komali2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.

I'm not sure I agree - I've never lived in an American city where cyclists didn't blow through reds. I hear it's the norm (though still illegal) in the UK as well.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#58

Post by Sephr » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

Am I the only one who wants to see more seated scooter innovation? I would much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the standing scooters that everyone is using.

1. http://rynomotors.com (launches April 16, 2019)

2. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-elect...

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#59

Post by beatgammit » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #48

komali2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.

Hey, if they're honking, they see you, and that's the most important thing. I get far more close calls when I stay to the right than when I take up the whole lane.

I fully support these scooters doing the same.

People may complain about scooters and bikes in a traffic lane, but if it catches on, we should see less total traffic since they're more compact and they'll probably avoid the more busy, higher speed roads anyway.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#60

Post by ismail » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #50

samcheng wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was clearly satire, but the idea is that only a certain subset of people are active enough to ride a bike. If e-scooters take off, that's a new/larger group of people traveling at 15mph. Infrastructure that was marginal for the small cohort of bicyclists will become obviously inadequate as people riding e-scooters, e-bikes, motor skateboards, etc. join them. As a bicyclist who wants more and safer bike lanes, I…

That's why it's aggravating to me how many cities insist on building everything at ground level. Cars? Ground level. Bikes and pedestrians? Ground level. Trains? Ground level, creating chaos at intersections. And now we have tons of scooters. Ground level, and causing chaos as people ride them without helmets and weave into car traffic. Adding more ground level transit isn't ever going to be the solution, and widenin…

I recall Toronto had a labyrinth of passage ways under ground, with shops etc. It connected to the subway and it was very convenient. Guess they built under ground due to the weather?