Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#51

Post by tome » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #49

ucaetano wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people The world is complicated, and things are never as simple as that. Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? It is always too easy to ignore the world as it is and focus on a utopian case. War will happen, with whatever tools are available.

> Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? No one was ever going to carpet bomb a wedding.

They've carpet bombed other places when they didn't have the alternative of a targeted strike at a wedding.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#52

Post by davebryand » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

He's right. Humanity's problems are solved by humans solving themselves. Each one of us is a puzzle that gets solved in the same way--doing the inner work to quiet our mind and open our hearts. When enough of us are solved, humanity's problems will automatically solve themselves.

Sundar seems to have done the inner work and understands this Truth. His "Cockroach Theory" is enlightening:

I realized that, it is not the shouting of my father or my boss or my wife that disturbs me, but it's my inability to handle the disturbances caused by their shouting that disturbs me.

It's not the traffic jams on the road that disturbs me, but my inability to handle the disturbance caused by the traffic jam that disturbs me.

More than the problem, it's my reaction to the problem that creates chaos in my life.

Lessons learnt from the story:

I understood, I should not react in life. I should always respond.

The women reacted, whereas the waiter responded.

Reactions are always instinctive whereas responses are always well thought of.

A beautiful way to understand............LIFE.

Person who is HAPPY is not because Everything is RIGHT in his Life..

He is HAPPY because his Attitude towards Everything in his Life is Right..!!

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cockroach-theory-beautiful-sp...

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#53

Post by loceng » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #38

puzzle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter the values and principles, no matter whether you agree with them or not, at the end of the day both positions are the law in the respective territories. You don't get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. But you can choose which countries to do business in, of course.

'You don't get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. But you can choose which countries to do business in, of course.' That's - if you'll excuse me - a very amoral and commercial way of looking at things: you don't belong to any society, and don't wish to exercise any control in any society, and the only way in which you can or should exercise your rights is in where you do business. It is precisely the r…

Right, and a growing concern is understanding the dangers and unavoidable pitfalls of censorship - even if the people who want to implement the systems have good hearts and mean for the best, it can make it easier for bad actors to take those systems over and silence who and what they want - and it can be subtle; imagine if such censorship existed in the US, and the Trump administration had control over it - do you think we would have heard anything about the Khashoggi trap, torture, and assassination by bad actors in Saudi?

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#54

Post by ucaetano » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #49

ucaetano wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people The world is complicated, and things are never as simple as that. Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? It is always too easy to ignore the world as it is and focus on a utopian case. War will happen, with whatever tools are available.

> Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? No one was ever going to carpet bomb a wedding.

> No one was ever going to carpet bomb a wedding.

Not a wedding, indeed, an entire town, with possibly dozens of weddings happening at the same time. Plus hospitals, schools, etc.

If you had to pick between carpet bombing and smart bombs, which one would you pick? (And consider you don't have a choice, like the trolley problem, you NEED to pick one).

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#55

Post by puzzle » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #38

puzzle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter the values and principles, no matter whether you agree with them or not, at the end of the day both positions are the law in the respective territories. You don't get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. But you can choose which countries to do business in, of course.

'You don't get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. But you can choose which countries to do business in, of course.' That's - if you'll excuse me - a very amoral and commercial way of looking at things: you don't belong to any society, and don't wish to exercise any control in any society, and the only way in which you can or should exercise your rights is in where you do business. It is precisely the r…

I thought this whole conversation was in the context of companies like Google? I don't think companies are people. They definitely don't get to flout the laws as they see fit, but they have the right to operate in the markets they choose. Even lobbying makes me uneasy.

As to the laws, yes, it's up to the citizens to shape and evolve them, through a referendum, elected official, regime change or whatever other way. But once they're signed, they're the law.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#56

Post by ma2rten » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

puzzle wrote: post #19

ma2rten wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will try to give an objective answer. They have a different underlying value system. Europe believes in individualism and privacy. China believes in collectivism and harmony. Right to be forgotten protects the individual. China's wall protects the government.

No matter the values and principles, no matter whether you agree with them or not, at the end of the day both positions are the law in the respective territories. You don't get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. But you can choose which countries to do business in, of course.

I am not sure what you point is. It's not just a binary thing: we do business in the country or we don't. With any decision you have to see if it's in line with your values or not.

For me personally, I am fine with passive censorship in China. My wife is Thai-Chinese so I can accept that there is a cultural difference. Where I would draw the line is when a company hands over information about individuals and then those individuals disappear with out any due process.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#57

Post by nicklaf » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

"Technology is neither good nor bad; nor is it neutral." -Melvin Kranzberg

What is bad are the neutral to bad actors who propagate technology, without planning or caring for its unintended consequences.

Technology is an amplifier, and like other amplifiers humans build, it is far easier boost some existing signal when you abdicate yourself from the goal of also maintaining the integrity of the signal: sure, you can get more power if you don't care about noise. In fact, building a perfect amplifier of arbitrary power is probably impossible.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#58

Post by ameister14 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

ucaetano wrote: post #47

discoball wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people and China to be more oppressive until its workers protested. So he's right about humanity having to solve its problems but he's forgetting that Google, the corporation, is opting to make it harder for humanity to solve its problems by enabling those who do not have humanity's best interest in their heart.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people The world is complicated, and things are never as simple as that. Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? It is always too easy to ignore the world as it is and focus on a utopian case. War will happen, with whatever tools are available.

>Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing?

That's not the alternative, though. Drones are used in hundreds of situations where without them, the US simply wouldn't have taken action.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#59

Post by ameister14 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #51

danharaj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? No one was ever going to carpet bomb a wedding.

They've carpet bombed other places when they didn't have the alternative of a targeted strike at a wedding.

Really? When and where?

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#60

Post by natalyarostova » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

ucaetano wrote: post #47

discoball wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people and China to be more oppressive until its workers protested. So he's right about humanity having to solve its problems but he's forgetting that Google, the corporation, is opting to make it harder for humanity to solve its problems by enabling those who do not have humanity's best interest in their heart.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people The world is complicated, and things are never as simple as that. Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? It is always too easy to ignore the world as it is and focus on a utopian case. War will happen, with whatever tools are available.

Only the most dogmatic pacifists in the US still maintain that the US entering WWII was the wrong choice. Yet the US literally incinerated hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians through carpet fire-bombings. Thankfully, we seem to have left the world of total war.

Whether nuclear weapons and targeted drone strikes made the world in some broad strokes more peaceful on purpose, well, probably not. Nonetheless, we haven't had carpet bombings anywhere near the scale of WWII in decades.