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Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

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Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#51
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way you prevent them from becoming progressice/racist trash bin worse than reddit. You let them speak and prove them idiots. It's really not hard. Unless you're constantly on the side that's losing, then it's pretty miserable. But know that even though you're losing now you can reformulated your arguments and try again because no ones going to censor you. You have all the same rights because you, like they,…

The problem, however, is that people are unresponsive to arguments. We are not reasonable, unfortunately. People aren't coming to these places to learn. They don't want to learn. I'm very curious as to how we can get out of this, because I really have a hard time understanding people and this is an enormous laboratory.

An argument doesn't have to be reasonable. You have logos, pathos, and ethos [1] to convince somebody.

It's like a good sale, you identify what they want and then you show them a more social and friendly approach to reach their goal.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#52
It is amazing how within an hour of this post the censors are already asking how to keep this from being taken over by racist/sexist trolls. The whole point of an anonymous open community is to allow for people to express their opinions freely, regardless of whether their views are "PC" or comply with the Vagenda of the vocal minority whos feeling might get hurt from some stupid comments. Suck it up princesses. From what I read there will be moderators to prevent truly hateful and criminal postings but beyond that these moderators will be held accountable for their decisions or lack thereof. Sounds to me like that should work just fine and if it doesn't the community will fail or be pushed out to the fringes just like all the previous ones.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#53
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way you prevent them from becoming progressice/racist trash bin worse than reddit. You let them speak and prove them idiots. It's really not hard. Unless you're constantly on the side that's losing, then it's pretty miserable. But know that even though you're losing now you can reformulated your arguments and try again because no ones going to censor you. You have all the same rights because you, like they,…

It's all fun and "debate" until someone shoots up a synagogue.

Wtf..

Slippery slope fallacy.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#54
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the cost of having open communication platforms is the existence of toxic communities. The correct approach (IMO) is to educate people about these rather than to have some sort of censorship mechanism.

That is, unfortunately, unworkable. You cannot successful quarantine toxic people from non-toxic people in the same community. People who aren't toxic rarely want to spend their time around toxic people, and those that don't mind it are usually those who aren't the targets of the toxic people. A community with many members who are openly white supremacists might not be uncomfortable for other white people -- even if…

> “I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all fun and "debate" until someone shoots up a synagogue.

Wtf.. Slippery slope fallacy.

No, that's how we got here. We're already below that point on the slope. Fascist trash bins leak, into the real world.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#56

Hey guys - Burak here. Ouch, this was supposed to be a ‘soft’ launch. I’m here to answer any questions as usual. I’ll pick the best and try to add it to the FAQ on the site.

Looks good. But a native application? I would only install a native application if it comes from a source that has a proven trackrecord of being trustworthy.

Can you track how many people installed it, now that it is on HN?

You say it puts everyone on "one single universe with the same content". So it should be easy to put up an instance that provides a web interface to the content, right?

I would think that posting via the browser should also be possible without relying on a single server / authority. A user could hold a private key which they use to sign their posts. And then deliver the post via any server that offers an interface for it. Similar to how a Bitcoin transaction can be delivered via any server that offers such a service.

So it would still be decentralized but can be used via the browser.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#57
post #44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you don't want to prove them wrong, or indeed engage them at all? Not everyone is owed a debate, a response, or even eyeballs. There's plenty of interesting content out there that people are paid to read, what makes you think anyone who values their time would be willing to read racist trash for free?

That's perfectly fine. But just because you don't want to debate with someone does that mean they're not allowed to talk to each other? In my opinion it's more important to let groups self-moderate and compartmentalize. We can have a peaceful talk because "they" are over there, where they don't disturb us. > Not everyone is owed [...] even eyeballs. Where to look is up to each pair of eyeballs.

> they... compartmentalize

And that's the key problem. People are more divided than ever, especially in politics, to the point where rational discussion is nearly impossible.

Instead of letting people separate into echo chambers, it seems much better to force everyone to be in the same space, which should result in people hearing each side of an argument. Use moderation to punish people who don't act civilly, which should eliminate the worst offenders.

I prefer things to be self moderated as much as possible, but not to the point where echo chambers can form. Some ideas:

- content gets removed after N reports - users with N reported posts get shadow-banned for some period (exponential scale) - users get N reports, which get replenished faster if reports result in content removal - users that brigade get their reports silently nixed (e.g. you consistently report content along with the same users)

Or something along those lines. Just having an open forum leads to one group out-shouting other groups, which leads to echo chambers. There must be some moderation, but not so much as to recreate the problem a different way.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#58

How do you get this to not turn into a fascist/racist trash bin worse than 4chan/b/ as other Reddit clones have seemingly fallen into?

As someone who has spent the better part of their life advocating for openness, decentralization, etc... it pains me to believe this, but I'm not sure we can have both open decentralized communities and simultaneously a community that isn't overrun with toxicity.

If the goal is shitposting and edge-waddling I think it can be done, for a while anyway. However, if the goal is to have a space where discussion is meaningful, good faith, charitable, intelligent conversation, I'm not sure we can currently do this in a completely open way and still maintain a signal to noise ratio where sane people would willfully spend their valuable free time.

In our current iteration of tech, society, education levels, culture, and politics it seems that (so far) every time we create an open space, the moment it reaches a certain level of popularity, the noise levels reach a point where it is pretty much impossible to have meaningful, contextual, and nuanced conversations.

At the point that signal to noise ratio reaches unacceptable levels, we lose a critical mass of the people who made the space "special"

I really hope we can get around this someday, but sadly, so far the absolutist free-for-all spaces really offer diminishing returns for those of us who are busy. Rather than sifting through rubble to find gold, at least for me, I can think of many things I'd rather do than engage in a conversation with someone when there is a higher than average chance they aren't there in good faith and when entire segments of the community exist who are literally only in the space to engage in and spread sophistry.

At least for now, outside of invite only communities or high barrier of entry communities, spaces such as HN or SSC --both of which are largely unknown to the general public-- seem to offer the best blend of openness and time-well-spent conversations. But I'm not sure either of these could maintain the same level of conversation at scale.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#59
Sounds good to me as it sounds like the individual is the ultimate end moderator allowing community moderators to try remove stuff but it is ultimately up to the individual if he wishes to see that content. I have to say I extremely dislike moderation. But this moderation it seems like I can choose. I am not a kid I want to choose. This seems like a good in between where offensive stuff may be stopped but no one will prevent you from removing the veil of secrecy should you curious mind want to see more.

Re: Aether – Free, privacy-sensitive public communities

#60

How do you get this to not turn into a fascist/racist trash bin worse than 4chan/b/ as other Reddit clones have seemingly fallen into?

The same way you prevent them from becoming progressice/racist trash bin worse than reddit. You let them speak and prove them idiots. It's really not hard. Unless you're constantly on the side that's losing, then it's pretty miserable. But know that even though you're losing now you can reformulated your arguments and try again because no ones going to censor you. You have all the same rights because you, like they,…

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