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FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

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Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#51

Post by ip26 »

themodelplumber wrote: post #41
silman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who went from nothing -> Amateur Extra when i was 23 (25 now) from a random spurt of inspiration to learn ham radio and then promptly did nothing with the license i agree with this. I don't know exactly what i was expecting from getting the license but i will say that i didn't expect it to basically just be dominated by old conservative men who don't appreciate younger folk stepping in on their air space.…

> Part of me was excited [...] decode ISS transmission [...] cheap as chips baofeng You can totally do this without spending more money! I've got my first award hanging on my wall for using my cheap as chips Baofeng to do this very thing. The award itself is really cool and has "INTERCOSMOS" across the top in English and Russian, along with an illustration of the Russian ISS module(s). The decoder I used was the free…

The SSTV stuff was really cool, especially how well it meshed with a cell phone aka pocket computer. There are some real applications too, unfortunately it's kind of techy for ordinary people.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#53

Post by ip26 »

silman wrote: post #43
themodelplumber wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of me was excited [...] decode ISS transmission [...] cheap as chips baofeng You can totally do this without spending more money! I've got my first award hanging on my wall for using my cheap as chips Baofeng to do this very thing. The award itself is really cool and has "INTERCOSMOS" across the top in English and Russian, along with an illustration of the Russian ISS module(s). The decoder I used was the free…

I definitely will try to do that SSTV event. I don't think i "get" echolink. You hook up your radio to your computer (somehow? I don't know how i'd do this with a baofeng) and talk into it and then it uses the internet to send that across the world to other peoples radios who are also connected to their computer? It just feels like a discord voice chat with radios as the input/output device. Am i missing something?

If you're just using your handset as a hand mic for what is basically Skype, yeah that's not all that exciting.

As far as I understand, VoIP links for radio primarily adds a tool in the toolbox for expanding & linking repeater networks. Instead of beaming your local repeater over the mountain range to get to the next village, you can link two repeaters over VoIP.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#54

Post by ip26 »

resters wrote: post #39
AWildC182 wrote: post #4

This has one unspoken bonus feature: Not having to talk to an octogenarian about politics. I know it sounds silly, but I suspect this is one of the huge features driving it's success. Amateur radio is plagued by bad actors and grumpy old men, along with the general age imbalance that makes it fairly unpleasant for young people and extremely unpleasant for anyone who sounds vaguely feminine...

I feel the need to clarify AWildC182's comment because I think it reflects poorly on amateur radio as an inviting place for younger people. There are some "scenes" in amateur radio that are dominated by older, somewhat conservative leaning discourse. Some VHF and UHF repeaters are like this, and there are many groups of people who chat with the same group every night on 80m SSB. Some newcomers start out on VHF/UHF re…

Some newcomers start out on VHF/UHF repeaters

I'm not close to the hobby but it seems like newcomers are specifically recommended to start out with VHF/UHF voice, equipment being simple & inexpensive, and voice being intuitive.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#56

Post by GlenTheMachine »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #38
AWildC182 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you like explained? I know the tech doesn't cover a lot regarding HF (which this is largely for). Sunspots? Propagation? Digital modes?

What is FT8 and why is it controversial with hams?

It's a digital mode that has impressive ability to hear weak signals. Which means you can have a small, inexpensive radio, a really suboptimal antenna, and still make worldwide contacts.

The basic mode only allows you to make contact, it doesn't allow for discussions or data transfer. It's simply a “I'm here, and I can hear you” mode.

It's controversial because a) to some hams, conversation is the reason to be on the air; and/or b) hams can be opinionated and grumpy, and some feel like if you haven't spent $5k on your radio/built your radio from scratch/exclusively use Morse code/devoted five acres of land to a 200 foot tall tower with a Yagi antenna you aren't doing it right. DX (long-distance communications) is an exclusive club. FT8 makes it a lot less exclusive. There's always resistance to that.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#57

Post by unoti »

silman wrote: post #24
AWildC182 wrote: post #4

This has one unspoken bonus feature: Not having to talk to an octogenarian about politics. I know it sounds silly, but I suspect this is one of the huge features driving it's success. Amateur radio is plagued by bad actors and grumpy old men, along with the general age imbalance that makes it fairly unpleasant for young people and extremely unpleasant for anyone who sounds vaguely feminine...

As someone who went from nothing -> Amateur Extra when i was 23 (25 now) from a random spurt of inspiration to learn ham radio and then promptly did nothing with the license i agree with this. I don't know exactly what i was expecting from getting the license but i will say that i didn't expect it to basically just be dominated by old conservative men who don't appreciate younger folk stepping in on their air space.…

> I have yet to actually speak to anyone because i don't feel like there is anything i would want to say.

A lot of this probably has to do with where you are, or more specifically, where the people you're hearing are. I first got into ham in North Carolina. The people there were talking about hunting and meat preservation techniques.

Then I moved to San Francisco, and later to Seattle. The people in these places are more talking about things like high bandwidth microwave and forming mesh networks, making reliable contacts with man-portable rigs, antenna design, raspberry pi vs adruino, sending video from remote controlled aircraft, and dozens of other things that fascinate me.

It's not an age thing, it's an interest thing. And the types of things people are interested in is strongly correlated to their geographic area.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#58

Post by sevensor »

MisterTea wrote: post #36

Interesting. But as a non-ham I find the article chock full of ham jargon which leaves me completely lost. > What happened to take an esoteric mode designed for multi-hop E skip on VHF and overnight turn it into a worldwide phenomenon across all bands from 2200m through 70cm? In other words, what makes FT8 a killer app? Indeed. What does make FT8 the killer app? Anyone care to break this down in layman's terms that a…

So, multi-hop E-skip is a way that the signal can propagate through the ionosphere. (E-layer skip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporadic_E_propagation). 2200m and 7cm are wavelengths. FT8 is a digital mode that can transmit a very restrictied amount of information -- basically your callsign and where you are. Exchanging this information is enough for a contact, or QSO. The debate is about whether it's still about communication when you can't really talk to people using FT8.

Edit: And contacts are basically how hams keep score. You used to send postcards to the people you'd talked to. Old hams have binders full of them.

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#59

Post by ChuckMcM »

mmaunder wrote: post #28
silman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who went from nothing -> Amateur Extra when i was 23 (25 now) from a random spurt of inspiration to learn ham radio and then promptly did nothing with the license i agree with this. I don't know exactly what i was expecting from getting the license but i will say that i didn't expect it to basically just be dominated by old conservative men who don't appreciate younger folk stepping in on their air space.…

Guys, no one is forcing you to listen to that stuff. Get off the voice bands, get on digital and you'll have a blast. Here's a fun talk at Defcon from Balint Seeber, a ham who focuses on security, to get you in the right headspace. I attended this and the group of 6 of us that hung out afterwards with Balint was some of the most impressive people I've met at Defcon. One had built a bug sniffer. Another was intercepti…

Exactly this.

Too many people get funneled into this trap by the ARRL who understandably push "get on the air today!" type articles which haven't been updated since the 80's and have people getting HF radios and hunting for repeaters on the 2M band. And the grumpy old guys who are pissed off it isn't the 80's (or 70's or 50's, few seem to be nostalgic for the 60's) anymore.

In the digital radio space its a lot more open, and just being able to work with radio has become pretty easy these days. I've got a bunch of SDRs now, and I agree the ADALM-PLUTO ($100) is the most cost effective way to get a nice xmit and receive SDR. The RSP2 from SDRPlay is another one that is good for the low bands through 2G (its like $200) then the next step up is the HackRF-1 ($300) or LimeSDR ($300) or LimeSDR Mini ($170). Above that you start getting into the Ettus/National USRP radios ($3000 and up).

Small WHSPR (whisper) radios like the article mentions are inexpensive to build and fun to play with as well, not a lot of chatting but tagging beacons and getting tagged. Or putting lightweight radios in a balloon and flying it around the world (https://www.mchsarc.com/?page_id=13)

Re: FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?

#60

Post by setquk »

AWildC182 wrote: post #4

This has one unspoken bonus feature: Not having to talk to an octogenarian about politics. I know it sounds silly, but I suspect this is one of the huge features driving it's success. Amateur radio is plagued by bad actors and grumpy old men, along with the general age imbalance that makes it fairly unpleasant for young people and extremely unpleasant for anyone who sounds vaguely feminine...

Hilariously true. Nothing worse than hearing “people” on 80m. It’s like a pub night full of racist, sexist old farts. I’m in the UK so this spans Europe as well. It’s not just a US thing.

There’s less trash on 40/20m I find.

I stick to CW, FT8, WSPR. Not enough bandwidth for an opinion :)

On a positive note, nice to see lots of hams in here.

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