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Brave 0.55 released

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Re: Brave 0.55 released

#51
post #4

I love the irony in “You are not a product“ from a commercial product (open source, I know) designed to monetize surfing (aka pay-to-surf), as if this is what the internet is about. I think we should resist such an effort and stick with projects (not companies) that want to keep the internet as it was meant to be, ie Mozilla Firefox. No problem with monetization but I want a browser that puts me first, not a middlema…

I think it’s worse than that, I mean, it’s anecdotal but I think their premise is flawed. Because I don’t think enough people are going to enable adds for it to ever be viable option for advertisers. I mean, their business case evolves around advertisers paying users to watch adds instead of paying Facebook or google. But Facebook only earns a few dollars per user per year, who in their right mind would turn off thei…

I'm willing to make a speculative bet on Brave/BAT. The existing user growth is good, and the incentives for their ad system are basically correct for everyone.

The product Brave is actually peddling is akin to anti-cheat software: It takes steps to prevent fraud throughout digital advertising and improve the cost effectiveness of digital ad campaigns. That pitch means that they have the ear of advertisers already, and it's only a question of executing on the rest. Given prodding, advertisers will cooperate in order to fix up the market because what they really want is a "commoditize your complements" scenario. They are not there to become adtech wizards. They want to find qualified customers for their primary business. If Brave succeeds in forming a coalition, you'll start to see businesses from other sectors talk it up and give users and content creators hard incentives to sign on. They can even use such marketing efforts as part of their own speculative plays on the currency.

On the user end of things, that means that Brave engages in the click fraud arms race, but with higher-powered weaponry than can be accessed from within Javascript. They get a deal that is a definite improvement on the status quo: they choose exactly when and where they want to see ads. For the other parts of the system, the cryptocurrency marketplace replaces most of the middlemen and associated incentives for fraud. If you're in the business of total control either way(whether it be "never-again-an-ad" or "I want to access as many users as possible"), it's a devil's bargain, but if you're interested in getting the Web on a more sustainable path where quality is encouraged, this is something that could do it.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#53
post #52
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay content providers with cash via Brave rather than ad views.

Why do we need a whole new browser for this?

Ideally it would be a completely interoperable system/protocol - so nothing like say Paypal or Google Contributor that competitors would resist adopting anyways. Plus, the adoption from a single provider for payment services wouldn't be nearly as high as a protocol + hundreds of providers.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#54

Anyone using Brave? Would love to hear your impressions.

It's my default browser, apart from a few quircks, I love the speed of it, especially on my older android phone I still switch to chrome when I'm working, because the developer tools are better in chrome (debugger, integration of lighthouse ect..)

You can try Kiwi or Bromite as well. Brave lags sometimes very much when you have long pages to scroll.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#55

Anyone using Brave? Would love to hear your impressions.

Here.

I was a huge Firefox fan, but having 50+ tabs open made the browser unusable - even the latest versions. I then switched reluctantly to Chrome, but always hated the UI.

Having downloaded Brave, it was love on first sight, looks good, works good, blocks ads. I very much miss all the Firefox extensions, I hope a lot will get ported eventually.

Oh, and Mozilla? You need to reboot your company/non-profit. I don't know what goes wrong there, but all the projects I found interesting got stopped (Persona), and the browser is no longer really great. It just /feels/ clunky.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#56
post #48
post #4

I love the irony in “You are not a product“ from a commercial product (open source, I know) designed to monetize surfing (aka pay-to-surf), as if this is what the internet is about. I think we should resist such an effort and stick with projects (not companies) that want to keep the internet as it was meant to be, ie Mozilla Firefox. No problem with monetization but I want a browser that puts me first, not a middlema…

The level of irony is even deeper. Brave is supposed to protect the privacy but in reality, their business model is about ads. It's like pedophiles giving advices on how to protect your kids from danger. Of course they know about it, and I wouldn't give my kids to them. Brave is essentially trying to become a mix between a pay-to-surf and an rogue ad replacement software. They have dozens of millions of dollars raise…

Sorry, are you saying that Brave is the main impetus behind DuckDuckGo growth? I find that hard to believe, given the minimal market share of Brave...

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#57
post #44
post #4

I love the irony in “You are not a product“ from a commercial product (open source, I know) designed to monetize surfing (aka pay-to-surf), as if this is what the internet is about. I think we should resist such an effort and stick with projects (not companies) that want to keep the internet as it was meant to be, ie Mozilla Firefox. No problem with monetization but I want a browser that puts me first, not a middlema…

Firefox isn’t doing much to stem the online dependency on ads. We really need an alternative monetization system. The internet is only half functioning if we still require massive corporations to intermediate between us and content providers.

It is doing a lot to stem the online dependency on tracking, however, which I think is far more important. DuckDuckGo monetises through as, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#58
post #4

I love the irony in “You are not a product“ from a commercial product (open source, I know) designed to monetize surfing (aka pay-to-surf), as if this is what the internet is about. I think we should resist such an effort and stick with projects (not companies) that want to keep the internet as it was meant to be, ie Mozilla Firefox. No problem with monetization but I want a browser that puts me first, not a middlema…

Maybe it's just me but why do we have to make the web about other people making money? In the 90s there were plenty of websites ran by hobbyists and amateurs and even professionals who did it for the joy of their craft and even today there are loads.

Maybe I am being overly harsh but are we saying that a browser like Brave is required these days?

I don't think the web would be worse-off if all commercial sites disappeared: There will still be enough hobbyists, amateurs and pro's with $10-a-month blogs to provide whatever information I need.

For those that have more in depth content, videos, films and so on we already have subscription models for those and I can pick and choose what I want (I don't subscribe to anything other than Pluralsight tbh).

Why do we have to assume that every site on the web is a commercial entity with staff and overheads and that the web will collapse if we don't allow adverts?

The web worked perfectly well without all this tracking and abuse and by using browsers like Brave we are saying that we are ok with it.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#59
post #44
post #4

I love the irony in “You are not a product“ from a commercial product (open source, I know) designed to monetize surfing (aka pay-to-surf), as if this is what the internet is about. I think we should resist such an effort and stick with projects (not companies) that want to keep the internet as it was meant to be, ie Mozilla Firefox. No problem with monetization but I want a browser that puts me first, not a middlema…

Firefox isn’t doing much to stem the online dependency on ads. We really need an alternative monetization system. The internet is only half functioning if we still require massive corporations to intermediate between us and content providers.

That monetization system already exists and you'll know it when you see it referred to as 'cryptojacking' by the MSM. Just like Bitcoin was smeared as a tool for crime webmining will have an equally hard time gaining footing until public consciousness comes to its senses once they realize the most dangerous superstition.

Re: Brave 0.55 released

#60
post #39
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed this Mozilla is a "corporation" many times before, here and elsewhere. https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2005/08/mozilla-foundation-fo...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

I agree Mozilla is a corporation, despite its marketing and brand efforts, everything else is very corporate. It started out as a foundation with corporation-as-necessity, but no longer the case. They are able to distance themselves from ad money through Google, but it's the same. If they could make more profit and growth, they would choose to do so.

A small example has twice been ads in the browser (now using local targeting), and if it was 100% a non-profit foundation goodie-goodie, would probably go with a default search engine like Duck Duck Go, but survival as a corporation prohibits otherwise. And I think that's totally okay, but I don't think we can pretend they aren't a corporation.

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