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Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

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Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#51
post #25

Speaking about linguistic minorities, here in Southern Italy there are some small towns speaking ancient Albanian called "Arbëreshë" [1], they have even orthodox churches [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB_people

Arbëresh isn’t "ancient Albanian". Arbëresh does retain a few early modern Albanian features that have been lost in the dialects spoken within Albania and the literary standard, but Arbëresh has undergone plenty of innovations of its own.

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#52

> ‘Adonaj es mi pastor. No mankare de nada’ (The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want) Mancare in Italian is to miss/need/be lacking, and although mancar in modern Portuguese is to limp, archaic Portuguese used it in the Italian sense. > I had to listen carefully to understand, hearing words like fazer (to do) and lavorar (to work) that sounded more like Portuguese and Italian than modern Spanish. I heard sounds lik…

Regarding your note there are other examples of false friends which make for funny pairs. Italian "sinistro" is left, but in French (and from there English) "sinistre/sinister" has a completely different meaning. Now we have a similar thing between French and English: "gauche" means left in French but "Lacking grace or social polish; awkward or tactless" in English.

It's actually interesting how the left and right have such a strong figurative meaning to them, left being bad (sinister, gauche, etc...) and right being... well, righteous. It's embedded deeply in our languages.

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#53
post #25

Speaking about linguistic minorities, here in Southern Italy there are some small towns speaking ancient Albanian called "Arbëreshë" [1], they have even orthodox churches [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB_people

Arbëresh isn’t "ancient Albanian". Arbëresh does retain a few early modern Albanian features that have been lost in the dialects spoken within Albania and the literary standard, but Arbëresh has undergone plenty of innovations of its own.

Nice correction, thank you

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#54
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usted(es) is a more modern invention. Ladino does have vos, which survives in some varieties, e.g. Argentine.

We use 'vos' and 'usted' more than 'tu' in Colombia, even with my girlfriend back and forth

wow, no need to brag

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#55
post #28

This is slightly tagential, but bare with me... Nationalism and nation states. We live in a nationalist world. All places and all people are politically divided into nations. Nationalism is so dominant that we barely think of it as a thing. Anyway.. ladino & it's speakers are descendants of refugees from the spanish reconquista and inquisition period. It's generally seen though a christian/muslim lens, but this isn't…

We already gave Jews a country, there's no need for them to suffer :')

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#56
post #28

This is slightly tagential, but bare with me... Nationalism and nation states. We live in a nationalist world. All places and all people are politically divided into nations. Nationalism is so dominant that we barely think of it as a thing. Anyway.. ladino & it's speakers are descendants of refugees from the spanish reconquista and inquisition period. It's generally seen though a christian/muslim lens, but this isn't…

Just to add to this, actually Ottoman Empire's parliament had more representation for minorities than the current parliament of Turkey which is a funny fact. Despite this, conditions were already bad for minorities as you mentioned. Look at the Turkish Parliament now, Kurdish representation is constantly being oppressed, there is almost no representation for other minorities such as Christians, Armenians.

I completely agree with you but just for the sake of completeness, there is one Armenian MP in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garo_Paylan This doesn't change much though since MP representation/population ratio is ridiculous, and the whole system is corrupt (and biased against minorities) anyway.

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#57
post #52

> ‘Adonaj es mi pastor. No mankare de nada’ (The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want) Mancare in Italian is to miss/need/be lacking, and although mancar in modern Portuguese is to limp, archaic Portuguese used it in the Italian sense. > I had to listen carefully to understand, hearing words like fazer (to do) and lavorar (to work) that sounded more like Portuguese and Italian than modern Spanish. I heard sounds lik…

Regarding your note there are other examples of false friends which make for funny pairs. Italian "sinistro" is left, but in French (and from there English) "sinistre/sinister" has a completely different meaning. Now we have a similar thing between French and English: "gauche" means left in French but "Lacking grace or social polish; awkward or tactless" in English. It's actually interesting how the left and right ha…

I think it's a case of chicken or the egg. At some point it becomes hard to tell which came first.

There are a few possible explanations here, regarding sinister:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/sinister#etymonline_v_23561

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#58
post #28

This is slightly tagential, but bare with me... Nationalism and nation states. We live in a nationalist world. All places and all people are politically divided into nations. Nationalism is so dominant that we barely think of it as a thing. Anyway.. ladino & it's speakers are descendants of refugees from the spanish reconquista and inquisition period. It's generally seen though a christian/muslim lens, but this isn't…

Do you consider the United States an empire?

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#59
Fascinating article. My chorus is doing a Hanukkah piece in Ladino for our Holiday concert. It's the second one we've done in the last few years. I think the text is harder for the native Western Spanish speakers than it is for singers like me who don't know any dialect of Spanish.

Re: Bosnians who speak medieval Spanish

#60
post #28

This is slightly tagential, but bare with me... Nationalism and nation states. We live in a nationalist world. All places and all people are politically divided into nations. Nationalism is so dominant that we barely think of it as a thing. Anyway.. ladino & it's speakers are descendants of refugees from the spanish reconquista and inquisition period. It's generally seen though a christian/muslim lens, but this isn't…

Spain is not a particularly great example; I'd categorize it very much as an evolution of the preceding feudal traditions. The country was born out of a marriage alliance between Castile and Aragon, and familial ties continued to govern a significant chunk of Spain's foreign policy throughout the early modern era, whether that is marriages into Portugal, into the Habsburg Holy Roman Empire, or the French Bourbons, or the whole confusing mess of Italian adventures with Naples et al. Spanish national identity still carries a lot of these fractures from the medieval regions that were never melded completely together - Basque and Catalonian autonomy movements are the prime example.
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