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The Awful German Language (1880)

cs.utah.edu

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Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#51

Post by codazoda »

Koshkin wrote: post #34

German is an amazing, beautiful language. With not much of the vocabulary borrowed from other languages, words actually make sense. From that perspective, German can be seen as the modern equivalent of Latin, and if I were to choose only one language to remain on the entire planet, it would be German (sorry English, Chinese and Spanish). Its sounds are easier for non-native speakers to pronounce - especially compared…

I took 4 years of German in high school, so I'm no expert, but I do disagree about it making sense any more than any other language.

There are at least 3 ways to say "the". Der, die, and das. Which one you use depends on if the object you're talking about is femanine or not. To top that off some geographic areas use "das" for everything.

It also has words that are similar to English; toilette (toilet) and hast (have) as a couple similarities.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#52

Post by amelius »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #49
GreeniFi wrote: post #27

I’m not German but spend a lot of time with Germans who are more often than not fantastic fun. And quite “freigeistlich” I find. This is an excellent German stand-up comedian who plies his trade in London: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48gV9W9UZHk A curious thing that I have noticed that when Germans speak and write English, they often don’t differentiate between 2 previously mentioned subjects or objects. For exampl…

Don't know about your example, but Germans tend to pack more information into a sentence, particularly in the written form (as Mark Twain rightfully noticed). Actually, I find English somewhat clumsy to write technical documentation in. Using short sentences, I frequently end up in restating things and having to find alternative words and idioms to avoid repetition. Moreover, using relative clause in English isn't qu…

What I like about English is that it naturally supports gender neutrality. For example: "the user should upload their photo, and then they should press enter", instead of "the user should upload his/her photo and then he/she should press enter".

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#53

Post by iodiniemetra »

GreeniFi wrote: post #27

I’m not German but spend a lot of time with Germans who are more often than not fantastic fun. And quite “freigeistlich” I find. This is an excellent German stand-up comedian who plies his trade in London: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48gV9W9UZHk A curious thing that I have noticed that when Germans speak and write English, they often don’t differentiate between 2 previously mentioned subjects or objects. For exampl…

English has a lot of unwritten rules as well. Which sounds correct?

I have a large red ball.

I have a red large ball.

I imagine german has the same, and I wonder if it's one of those cases. For example, to a german speaker, it would be completely clear that Dave is the one who forgot the book because the first subject mentioned is always the relevant one, or something like that.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#54

Post by louisswiss »

Koshkin wrote: post #50
bitL wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite appearance, German is very illogical language full of idioms and exceptions one has to master. Also, even natives usually don't master the full extent of language and the overbearing nature of language with its need for precise use of words/formulations specific to a given situation often leads to strong reliance on syntax/appearance of complexity. You can see it in typical German philosophy, where the langua…

Yet, the greatest philosophers after the Greeks were all German-speaking (Hegel, Kant, Feuerbach, Marx, Nietzsche, Mach...). Also, physicists, mathematicians.

'The greatest' ?

Slight exaggeration.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#55

Post by jpatokal »

iodiniemetra wrote: post #53
GreeniFi wrote: post #27

I’m not German but spend a lot of time with Germans who are more often than not fantastic fun. And quite “freigeistlich” I find. This is an excellent German stand-up comedian who plies his trade in London: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48gV9W9UZHk A curious thing that I have noticed that when Germans speak and write English, they often don’t differentiate between 2 previously mentioned subjects or objects. For exampl…

English has a lot of unwritten rules as well. Which sounds correct? I have a large red ball. I have a red large ball. I imagine german has the same, and I wonder if it's one of those cases. For example, to a german speaker, it would be completely clear that Dave is the one who forgot the book because the first subject mentioned is always the relevant one, or something like that.

There actually are "rules" for adjective order in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective#Order

For example, size precedes color, hence "large red ball".

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#56

Post by bitL »

Koshkin wrote: post #50
bitL wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite appearance, German is very illogical language full of idioms and exceptions one has to master. Also, even natives usually don't master the full extent of language and the overbearing nature of language with its need for precise use of words/formulations specific to a given situation often leads to strong reliance on syntax/appearance of complexity. You can see it in typical German philosophy, where the langua…

Yet, the greatest philosophers after the Greeks were all German-speaking (Hegel, Kant, Feuerbach, Marx, Nietzsche, Mach...). Also, physicists, mathematicians.

Some people blame the tragedy of 20th century on prevailing idealistic trends in German philosophy, including the ones you mentioned.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#57

Post by oh_sigh »

iodiniemetra wrote: post #53
GreeniFi wrote: post #27

I’m not German but spend a lot of time with Germans who are more often than not fantastic fun. And quite “freigeistlich” I find. This is an excellent German stand-up comedian who plies his trade in London: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48gV9W9UZHk A curious thing that I have noticed that when Germans speak and write English, they often don’t differentiate between 2 previously mentioned subjects or objects. For exampl…

English has a lot of unwritten rules as well. Which sounds correct? I have a large red ball. I have a red large ball. I imagine german has the same, and I wonder if it's one of those cases. For example, to a german speaker, it would be completely clear that Dave is the one who forgot the book because the first subject mentioned is always the relevant one, or something like that.

There are "rules" for that, even if they are just descriptive: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/abo...

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#58

Post by sarabande »

GreeniFi wrote: post #27

I’m not German but spend a lot of time with Germans who are more often than not fantastic fun. And quite “freigeistlich” I find. This is an excellent German stand-up comedian who plies his trade in London: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48gV9W9UZHk A curious thing that I have noticed that when Germans speak and write English, they often don’t differentiate between 2 previously mentioned subjects or objects. For exampl…

Yes, sometimes the grammar of German will make obvious something that would be easy to lose in careless translation, but not always. Using an example:

Dave and Andy each went to London with a pencil and a book. He forgot it at the train station.

Dave und Andy sind mit jeweils einem Stift und einem Buch nach London gefahren. Er hat es im Bahnhof vergessen.

Here it is NOT clear who forgot (they are both male), but it is clear what was left behind, because 'es' refers to the book (neuter), otherwise a different article would have been used for masculine pencil.

In careless English translation one loses the distinction because English uses "it" for all inanimate objects.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#59

Post by louisswiss »

emsy wrote: post #9
mitchty wrote: post #3

Heh, its honestly not that bad of a language, and has undergone two reforms (maybe 3? I forget) since this document was created. The "awful" parts of German are in some ways its saving grace. Example: surfing is Wellenreiten, literally wave-riding or riding waves. This whole thing is all over German with compound words. Its really no different conceptually from "the old blue car" in English, its just mashed together…

Then there are also slightly funny ones -plane / Flugzeug / flight stuff -lighter / Feuerzeug / fire stuff -light bulb / Glühbirne / Glow pear -eyeball / Augapfel / Eye apple

The 'Zeug' ending you're referencing doesn't just mean stuff - it comes from the verb zeugen (to procreate/beget).

So Flugzeug is really flight begetter (or perhaps flight creator)

And Feuerzeug is fire creator.

Much more sensible!

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#60

Post by lemoncucumber »

Koshkin wrote: post #34

German is an amazing, beautiful language. With not much of the vocabulary borrowed from other languages, words actually make sense. From that perspective, German can be seen as the modern equivalent of Latin, and if I were to choose only one language to remain on the entire planet, it would be German (sorry English, Chinese and Spanish). Its sounds are easier for non-native speakers to pronounce - especially compared…

> I were to choose only one language to remain on the entire planet, it would be German

As I recall that didn't work out so well last time it was tried...

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