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Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

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Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#51

[flagged]

I get no paywall.

I have an adblocker, so I use private browsing. It says I can read a limited number of articles per month, so long as I allow ads - but Ive not run into this using this method.

Perhaps if you are using a regular browser without an adblock, you reach a maximum? and if so, perhaps use a private browsing session next month?

Also: http://archive.is/hvDCa

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#52

Our local police department (Oviedo florida) takes a police car 200 ft from the station and sits it by a 25mph zone that feeds into a 50 mph zone [1]. Now that my wife and I have both been ticketed (30mph) we go the speed limit -- what is even more weird --- going 25mph near a freeway is really dangerous as cars honk and freak out behind you swerving to get around you. https://www.google.com/maps/place/28%C2%B038'57.…

This is one of the few areas where Michigan leads with strong quality legislation.

Michigan Public Act 85 of 2006 requires speed limits to be set to reasonable speeds for traffic (generally based on the 85th Percentile rule), so as not to artificially incriminate the general population. It overrides local laws, so it also prevents corrupt municipalities and/or corrupt police departments from lowering the speed limits for financial gains (speed traps).

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/investigations/13-on-you...

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/10/po...

I don't know if Florida has a similar law. But if not, they should consider it.

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i really dislike speed traps. i'd even support a proposition to convert all speed limits to suggested speeds (thereby abolishing fines for speeding). you could and should still punish dangerous driving, but speed by itself wouldn't serve as the threshold for unsafe driving.

Problem with that is that for the most part speed is a pretty objective measure —whereas “dangerous driving” isn’t, so will result in uneven interpretation/application.

As someone who was ticketed for going the speed limit on a bright sunny day on a rural highway with no other cars around, where the cop wrote down two different speeds and it just happened to be the last day of the month... I assure you it is not always objective. Cost me 5x to fight it what the ticket would have been, but it's the principle of the matter.

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#55
post #49

Our local police department (Oviedo florida) takes a police car 200 ft from the station and sits it by a 25mph zone that feeds into a 50 mph zone [1]. Now that my wife and I have both been ticketed (30mph) we go the speed limit -- what is even more weird --- going 25mph near a freeway is really dangerous as cars honk and freak out behind you swerving to get around you. https://www.google.com/maps/place/28%C2%B038'57.…

This is actually the kind of thing your congressperson can sometimes be helpful with. Worth a call.

Amen. Cruel and unusual is what this is.

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#56
post #6

It makes no sense that money police collects goes directly towards funding any government department. It should go into a tax refund pool.

I was trying to think of a place to stick the money that wouldn't incentivize over-policing and couldn't think of one. But your option is perfect. There's obviously no incentive for government employees to return money to tax payers, so if anything, this would incentivize under-enforcement of fines and fees.

I thought long and hard about that one and decided that fines should be remitted to the social security administration and booked against the perps account as a contribution.

As far as I can tell this is extremely easy to implement. And utterly removes any mal-incentives.

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#57
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are governments in rural areas funded by speed traps.

i really dislike speed traps. i'd even support a proposition to convert all speed limits to suggested speeds (thereby abolishing fines for speeding). you could and should still punish dangerous driving, but speed by itself wouldn't serve as the threshold for unsafe driving.

After the US national speed limit was repealed in the 90s, Montana had no posted daytime limit. The law stated you had to drive "reasonable and prudent for conditions". The law got tossed by the state supreme court because there is no objective standard for reasonable and prudent.

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#58
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are governments in rural areas funded by speed traps.

i really dislike speed traps. i'd even support a proposition to convert all speed limits to suggested speeds (thereby abolishing fines for speeding). you could and should still punish dangerous driving, but speed by itself wouldn't serve as the threshold for unsafe driving.

>> "...convert all speed limits to suggested speeds (thereby abolishing fines for speeding)"

The State of Montana had this until the late 1990's, when the Fed's finally forced Montana into having a speed limit again by threatening to pull all Federal highway funding.

Other fun facts are that you could get a driving license at 14 years old (or a "ranch driving license" at 12 in some semi-rare cases), there was no seatbelt law, no motorcycle helmet law, and no law against drinking and driving[0].

[0] There was a law against being drunk while driving, but not a law against drinking while driving. This lead to the classic canard: "How far is it from Butte to Helena?" "Oh about four beers."

Re: Police that collect more in fees and fines are less effective at solving crime

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cars are the number one killer of people in america that police can directly affect. so why wouldn't we want more enforcement of traffic rules I think automotive industry innovation can do more to bring the fatalities down than any practical amount of policing. Also, I'm tired of the low standards for actual driving ability in America, combined with the lazy speed enforcement approach by cops. My life has very, very…

the automotive industry has done a good job improving auto safety already, and i'm sure will continue to work on it, but i imagine the improvements are marginal at this point. auto makers would have to rip out all screens and install sensors to detect eating, drinking, phone use, newspaper reading, makeup application, etc. to make a large dent in the problem. but i'm with you about distracted and incompetent driving.…

but i imagine the improvements are marginal at this point

Existing improvements have barely entered the market. Consider what is probably the single greatest innovation since ABS: automatic emergency braking. Having watched quite a number of dashcam videos on YouTube, it is amazing how many people just plough into others, either not braking at all, or not braking at anywhere near the limit of their car.

Here's a great example of automotive innovation saving the day: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-5fKzmy38

Incidentally, this is the same reason I find those clickbait articles about "what would a self-driving car do if faced with hitting a school bus or running off a cliff". The correct answer is "brake to the full potential of the car and aim straight", since reducing kinetic energy should be the primary focus!

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