Live data from Hacker News

A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

latimes.com

51–60 of 107 posts

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#51
post #43
post #38

There are a lot of people who use the My Lai massacre as an example of the 'real' America. There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. In Michigan we've got the recent example of Dr. Hanna Attisha and the Flint water crisis. She was vilified by Flint officials, state officials and by the state's universities…

> There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. There were a lot of My Lai’s in Vietnam . Biggest misconception is that it was some kind of fluke. But in a “war” where entire civillian populated areas were designated “free fire zones” where you could kill anything that moves, civillian massacres were the norm.…

As the article quotes one soldier there was a mai Lai every month. You make it sound like this was a fact in the article. One unnamed soldier claimed that.

And I think the free fire zones were much more centered on artillery and air strikes and not ground infiltrations just walking and shooting whomever they wanted to, but it’s still horrible the disregard for human life.

But to state as you do that civilian mass murder was the goal, that’s false. The goal was war of attrition of actual combatants. What they did was not care or let civilian casualties stop them from trying to carry out that goal. Still horrible but come on there is enough bad stuff to point to without exaggeration and misleading.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. There were a lot of My Lai’s in Vietnam . Biggest misconception is that it was some kind of fluke. But in a “war” where entire civillian populated areas were designated “free fire zones” where you could kill anything that moves, civillian massacres were the norm.…

Its one of those features of asymmetric warfare, that you can drag the enemy into the moral-mud-pits of combating opposition among the civilian population. For the opposite side this has the benefit of getting new recruits among the relatives and survivors and obviously of leading a far superior enemy by the noose ring through the public arena -which raises Opposition in a democracy - and reduces combat effectiveness…

If the Vianamese were over here what percentage of Americans would be in active opposition immediately? What percentage after almost everyone saw friends and relatives slaughtered?

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#53
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: people who claim that the atomic bombings of Japan saved lives, and the people who claim that white people deserve credit for being the people who ended slavery in the United States.

As a student of WW2, millions of Japanese lives were saved by the atomic bombs: 1) Japanese military leaders were planning to continue fighting until no citizens were left: "even if the Japanese people die, their spirit will live on." Surrender rates in previous island battles were on the order of 1% (ie. 99% killed or seriously injured.) 2) the Japanese people were facing starvation had the war continued. The early…

Tokyo was off the initial atomic bombing target list because it had already been mostly destroyed by firebombing.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes civilians do die in wars but the conduct of the US forces in South east Asia was pretty reprehensible by any measure. Particularly if you’ve read “Kill anything that moves” by Nick Turse

I completely agree - US forces behaved terribly during the Vietnam war. Sadly, I can't think of a war where civilians didn't get massacred. Maybe not to the same extent as in Vietnam, but massacres happen. The truly fucked up part is that there are likely many massacres that have never been reported.

Ok, so if you agree, there is no need to give the caveat "massacres happen". I recognize that you don't mean anything by it and it's a natural response when you are somehow associated with something icky to try and rationalize it. Still, it comes off as trying to soften the significance. If this was a discussion of war crimes perpetrated by some other country, would you feel compelled to point out that "massacres happen"? Americans committed the crimes, and America is responsible, period. Let's not try to blunt it. There's a measure of humility to be gained here, if we look for it, instead of a way to save face.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its one of those features of asymmetric warfare, that you can drag the enemy into the moral-mud-pits of combating opposition among the civilian population. For the opposite side this has the benefit of getting new recruits among the relatives and survivors and obviously of leading a far superior enemy by the noose ring through the public arena -which raises Opposition in a democracy - and reduces combat effectiveness…

If the Vianamese were over here what percentage of Americans would be in active opposition immediately? What percentage after almost everyone saw friends and relatives slaughtered?

[dead]

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#56
post #16
post #11

It's a bit strange that we are remembering the "hero" but not the 500 or so innocent vietnamese men, women, children and infants who were raped, tortured and/or killed. Strange how we always have to make ourselves the good guys. The "heroes". If you look at the war photos. You'll see infants. Such a horrific war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre It's also strange that we say this is the worst event in vi…

See also: people who claim that the atomic bombings of Japan saved lives, and the people who claim that white people deserve credit for being the people who ended slavery in the United States.

Who deserves credit for ending slavery? Or is it no one because it was an immoral practice to start with? Or are you saying that just because a subset of white people were involved, that credit would not extend to white people as a whole? I guess I don't really see the significance of making a point of this. If someone is hurting me repeatedly, and then they decide to stop, I think they'd deserve credit for realizing they should stop. Furthermore, I'd want them to have that credit to encourage sensible acts going forward.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#57
post #9

High point: Thompson told the American troops that, if they opened fire on the Vietnamese civilians in the bunker, he and his crew would open fire on them. Talk about courage. Low point: He concluded — after a decade of research in Pentagon archives and more than 100 interviews with American veterans and Vietnamese survivors — that Americans killing civilians in Vietnam was “pervasive and systematic.” One soldier tol…

Hasn't really stopped either. Read up on things like the shoddy evidence that goes into drone bombing or the crimes of Seal Team Six or the many other horrific acts the US military has done in recent years and decades. If anything it seems like we are getting better at sweeping this stuff under the rug.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, serious military figures in the US armed forces concluded that Japan was utterly defeated and was making peace feelers. They were basically defenseless at that stage of the war, against the bombing raids. The civilian massacre could have been prevented by merely demonstrating the bomb. However they chose to experiment by dropping it on an city.

Two cities. They didn't stop at one, they did it twice.

Sure, since they didn't surrender after the first one. And there might have been a third one...

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#60
post #9

High point: Thompson told the American troops that, if they opened fire on the Vietnamese civilians in the bunker, he and his crew would open fire on them. Talk about courage. Low point: He concluded — after a decade of research in Pentagon archives and more than 100 interviews with American veterans and Vietnamese survivors — that Americans killing civilians in Vietnam was “pervasive and systematic.” One soldier tol…

Hasn't really stopped either. Read up on things like the shoddy evidence that goes into drone bombing or the crimes of Seal Team Six or the many other horrific acts the US military has done in recent years and decades. If anything it seems like we are getting better at sweeping this stuff under the rug.

Yes, thats the point of this history lesson - we are still committing these crimes, on a regular basis, with impunity.

The only ones who can do anything about it is civilians. But, none of us seem to be too bothered by the 300,000 innocent lives lost, because America needs war.

Post reply on HN