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Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#51

Post by TeMPOraL »

tomp wrote: post #47
TeMPOraL wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume those people either fly to and back in the same day, have an already established "base" with clothes & cosmetics on the other end, or just buy everything at their destination. Personally, even for business trips longer than 2-3 days I end up having to use checked luggage.

I'm leaving today for a 4-day trip with just a backpack (I'm a guy without contact lenses or other medical issues so I need minimal cosmetics) (admittedly I'm taking a bit of a risk by trusting the weather forecast). A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy stuff there) with a 40L backpack.

> A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy stuff there) with a 40L backpack.

Nice. But how did that fit in the usual size & weight limits of hand luggage? Or did you fly with a decent airline instead of a cheap one?

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#52

Post by throwaway9d0291 »

tomp wrote: post #45
sorokod wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process Depends on how you define "boarding process". My experience is that it is insignificant if the boarding process starts at the point where the boarding gates open and ends when the plane starts taxiing for takeoff.

Exactly. If airlines wanted to, they could significantly optimize the process... Like ordering the passangers by seat number already in the terminal. Some larger airlines do that, but discount airlines prefer to make money by charging for "priority boarding"... and even that is retarded, they could simply charge more for upfront seats (I don't really see the benefit of boarding early, after all airplanes are likely l…

> Like ordering the passangers by seat number already in the terminal.

Mythbusters tested this and it actually performed pretty poorly: https://mythresults.com/airplane-boarding

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#53

Post by simonh »

close04 wrote: post #19
wongarsu wrote: post #2

I sympathise with the consumer associations: charging for largish hand luggage makes price comparisons deceptive, distorting the market. On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the…

Isn’t this like McDonalds advertising the cheapest burger but only giving you an empty bun because the meat patty is the most time consuming part of the cooking process? There’s already too much misdirection in airline ticket sales, we need less not more.

What the parent proposed is like McDonalds having to advertise the price of a burger with the meat, but offering a discount if you just want the bun.

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#54

Post by wastedhours »

bumholio wrote: post #23
wastedhours wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why this is being downvoted, and agree that it's not a nice point to try and argue - however it is somewhat irksome when I (as a recovering anorexic with a very small physical footprint) is penalised for a baggage weight allowance and yet there's no difference in seat cost between myself at 51kg and someone at twice that. Completely appreciate there's no fair way to police it (other than that, I think Sa…

Weight is largely irrelevant. The difference between a airliner full of 45Kg people versus 90Kg people constitutes about 5% of the total plane weight. Some fuel savings but would not be worth the aggravation, client humiliation, lawsuits etc. What it boils down to is volume and time. A passenger takes up a seat regardless of how large he is (...) so he's charged for a seat. Luggage changes that equation far more than…

> A passenger takes up a seat regardless of how large he is

I'm only halfway joking when I say I've lost many an elbow into the side of someone substantially larger than I. For some "a seat" is "their seat + several inches of mine".

I know it's not really the problem at hand, but it's poor proxy for volume, and again, just shows that the weight fee is just a sham.

Just going to start manufacturing a "flight jacket" with pockets for all your luggage...

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#55

Post by lorenzobr »

seszett wrote: post #29
lorenzobr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ryanair is the only airline to certain destinations Surely it's not Ryanair's fault if others are not willing to compete for certain destinations.

Maybe, but you cannot say that the market is "extremely competitive" and "others are not willing to compete" at the same time.

I'm not the one who said the market is "extremely competitive". For sure is a market with high barriers to entry, very expensive to be in and profit margins are not that high either.

So if you are Ryanair you aim at doing more destinations and paid "extras", if you are Alitalia you aim at doing fewer destinations on a much bigger price mark.

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#56

Post by close04 »

jMyles wrote: post #28
close04 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this like McDonalds advertising the cheapest burger but only giving you an empty bun because the meat patty is the most time consuming part of the cooking process? There’s already too much misdirection in airline ticket sales, we need less not more.

If many people desire only the empty bun (gag me) then it's not so insane to show a price for that. I was on a Ryanair flight last month from Malaga to Berlin; less than half (a lot less) had overhead luggage.

> Malaga to Berlin

This strongly suggests they had checked in luggage and simply didn't want to pay even more just to bring some in the cabin. A flight is not like a taxi ride, you're all but guaranteed you need luggage. So I think the cause-effect relationship works the other way. People don't bring hand luggage because they plan based on the cheap fare only to discover it doesn't include that.

The only reason prices are advertised as such is that they can initially stand out as being cheap. Many people will just go for it because it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison with an airline that gives you everything in a single package. Services that are now in a race to the bottom (airlines, mobile operators, etc.) are using these strategies more and more to differentiate themselves. But it's all done through misleading advertisement.

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#57

Post by lorenzobr »

gaius wrote: post #50
lorenzobr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ryanair is the only airline to certain destinations Surely it's not Ryanair's fault if others are not willing to compete for certain destinations.

There have been various dodgy dealings around subsidies, it’s by no means as clear-cut as that. This freezes rivals out.

dodgy dealings = lobbying. Everyone does it in every industry unfortunately for us consumers.

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#58

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jMyles wrote: post #42
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they check baggage or not carry any?

I have no idea. :-) I didn't stalk people about it or anything. I myself actually paid for a bag in order to be able to carry-on my guitar, only to be told at the gate that I needed to gate check it (but with assurances that they'd be very careful, etc - although it's a carbon fiber guitar in a hard case, so I wasn't too worried). So I got on the plane without a carry-on. Then I noticed... that most other people did…

Thanks, sounds like if the carousel was jammed that lots of people were checking bags.

I can't imagine getting on a plane to a different country without a bag at all.

Make sure to do a proper survey next time though! ;oP

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#59

Post by ghaff »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #51
tomp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm leaving today for a 4-day trip with just a backpack (I'm a guy without contact lenses or other medical issues so I need minimal cosmetics) (admittedly I'm taking a bit of a risk by trusting the weather forecast). A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy stuff there) with a 40L backpack.

> A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy stuff there) with a 40L backpack. Nice. But how did that fit in the usual size & weight limits of hand luggage? Or did you fly with a decent airline instead of a cheap one?

A ~40L travel backpack like [1] is legal carryon (and is probably actually a bit more adaptable for overhead space than a typical rollaboard) along with a small laptop bag or other "personal item." It's what I mostly use to travel all over the world for weeks at a time. This is on a regular airline--typically United. I get free checked luggage but rarely take advantage.

[1] https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/porter-46-PORTER46.html

Re: Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges

#60

Post by 394549 »

wongarsu wrote: post #2

I sympathise with the consumer associations: charging for largish hand luggage makes price comparisons deceptive, distorting the market. On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the…

> On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the delay, incentivizing people to take less luggage (bags that can be stored under your seat are still free). It makes economic sense for everyone.

Actually the main problem here was the airlines dis-incentivizing checked luggage, by introducing charges for it. Planes are designed to carry luggage in the hold, not the cabin, but if you charge to carry luggage in the hold, customers are going to try to bring as much as they can into the cabin.

> To satisfy both sides of the argument, you could show the price with large hand luggage fee included, and offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage. If you extend that concept, you arrive at a "base feature set" that has to be included in the base price of any flight, and from there you can add surcharges and discounts.

I agree. IMHO, there needs to be regulation standardizing what's included in a ticket for advertising purposes. Now every airline has their own unique way of nickle and diming you, and it so time consuming and troublesome to figure out whats the best deal for traveling from A to B in a reasonable fashion. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what the most common features that a typical travelers uses.

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