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Subject: Airbnb (2011)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#51

Post by jMyles »

ddoran wrote: post #41
jMyles wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time. I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception. Perhaps living in a single plac…

> I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time That's not living somewhere. That's visiting.

Oh yeah? I'm alive during those 3-10 days. And I'm there.

If that's not living, then where do I live? I don't have a long-term lease or anything similar. Do I not deserve the same quality of life and opportunities as people who happened to have been born in the East Village?

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#52

Post by jMyles »

lancesells wrote: post #38
jMyles wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time. I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception. Perhaps living in a single plac…

Perhaps AirBnb should actually follow the law in NYC (30 days minimum) until they can lobby enough to change the law.

...why? What makes this law worth following in the first place?

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#53

Post by ddoran »

jMyles wrote: post #51
ddoran wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time That's not living somewhere. That's visiting.

Oh yeah? I'm alive during those 3-10 days. And I'm there. If that's not living, then where do I live? I don't have a long-term lease or anything similar. Do I not deserve the same quality of life and opportunities as people who happened to have been born in the East Village?

Semantics. I respectfully disagree. Being alive, and living at a place are two completely different things. By your definition, I've lived in 12 countries this year. I haven't.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#54

Post by jMyles »

ddoran wrote: post #53
jMyles wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah? I'm alive during those 3-10 days. And I'm there. If that's not living, then where do I live? I don't have a long-term lease or anything similar. Do I not deserve the same quality of life and opportunities as people who happened to have been born in the East Village?

Semantics. I respectfully disagree. Being alive, and living at a place are two completely different things. By your definition, I've lived in 12 countries this year. I haven't.

It's not semantics. It's a simple question: if someone doesn't have a current lease in a particular place, where do they live? Particularly for the purposes of enjoying the privileges that everyone in this thread is claiming they deserve by dint of living in NYC (ie, artificially controlled rent prices such that the rest of us can't utilize the economic opportunities in the city).

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#55

Post by timmy-turner »

meowface wrote: post #29
lexs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Europe there were apps to call a taxi and sites to book vacation homes before either Uber or AirBnB came over. But sure ruthlessly minimising personnel responsibilities and costs can be another "value".

As someone currently living in a German area with almost no Uber service, mytaxi (the equivalent Uber-like taxi app) is inferior to and much less reliable and functional than Uber and Lyft.

I tried mytaxi during a vacation in Italy. Went through the whole onboarding, including checking the trips expected fare and entering CC details only to get told after pressing the 'call taxi now' button by a popup that the service is not available in this area. WTF? Also the whole app looked very cheap and felt fragile.

In my hometown I'm just calling taxis off the street or via plain old phone.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#56

Post by elhudy »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #39
jMyles wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time. I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception. Perhaps living in a single plac…

> if your desire is to live there perpetually for years You mean like 99% of people? When you work in the city, grew up in the city, have met almost everyone you know in the city, to then be forced out of the city because people want to rent their apartments out for 3-10 days at a time instead of 1-3 years means that people who need the stability of a permanent address now have to either shell out much more cash than…

There should be a new word for this type of gentrification.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#57

Post by throwawaymath »

zaphod12 wrote: post #31
throwawaymath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great observation. > The counter example to these companies are the ones that quickly raised capital to dump scooters on public streets before they could be shut down by cities. I live in NYC, and I’m frequently in Westchester (the county immediately north of NYC, for those not familiar with New York). There’s been a large influx of Lime bikes in the past several months. My opinion on Lime - the bike/scooter company…

I agree with almost everything you've said, but have to mention that Lime bike was entirely endorsed by White Plains - https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/white-pla... Not sure if they're winding up in other towns nearby (inevitable, I guess), but in this case the city was totally on board with them showing up!

Yep, they end up as far south as the Bronx, and are pretty ubiquitous even in Yonkers. Curiously, I have not observed Lime bikes being strewn around haphazardly in White Plains. I would venture a guess that's because the company pays more attention to the city that explicitly sanctioned them.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#58

Post by bluntfang »

jMyles wrote: post #50
CaptainZapp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. I'd wager that anybody who suddenly had an illegal hotel running out of her neighboring appartment will very strongly disagree with that statement. Unless you personally made that experience, in a house where parties live for 30 years+, you are not aware what a massive impact this can have on your quality of life. Since I've been ther…

As I said, I think it's time to question whether an environment such as NYC is a realistic place to live for 30 years+ - is that sustainable for our species? I think that the availability of short-term housing in NYC in particular is a net benefit for society, even if it adds an uncomfortable dose of reality for many people who had the extreme privilege of growing up there.

You're strawmanning. It doesn't matter if you think people should live there for 30+ years, because that's what's already happening.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#59

Post by jMyles »

bluntfang wrote: post #58
jMyles wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I think it's time to question whether an environment such as NYC is a realistic place to live for 30 years+ - is that sustainable for our species? I think that the availability of short-term housing in NYC in particular is a net benefit for society, even if it adds an uncomfortable dose of reality for many people who had the extreme privilege of growing up there.

You're strawmanning. It doesn't matter if you think people should live there for 30+ years, because that's what's already happening.

Yeah, well, those of us who live there for I don't understand the strawman - what argument did I mischaracterize in an attempt to make it appear weaker for the purposes of responding to it?

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#60

Post by jMyles »

elhudy wrote: post #56
jermaustin1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your desire is to live there perpetually for years You mean like 99% of people? When you work in the city, grew up in the city, have met almost everyone you know in the city, to then be forced out of the city because people want to rent their apartments out for 3-10 days at a time instead of 1-3 years means that people who need the stability of a permanent address now have to either shell out much more cash than…

There should be a new word for this type of gentrification.

People refusing to stay in the locality and socioeconomic conditions of their birth place, and instead exploring the world and learning about its people, is gentrification now?

The amount of NYC-born privilege being waved around in this thread is astounding.

I have paid, in many ways, for NYC my whole life. It's my city too, even though I wasn't born there. I identify with its culture. I know its geography and social norms. I play its open mics to enthusiastic audiences of a size that I simply can't reach upstate.

Why do you think that people who are born in NYC are entitled to these things to the exclusion of the rest of us?

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