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UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

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Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are starting to realize that this definition is incompatible with rules against gender-based discrimination.

I am a person. And I am not starting to, at all.

I mean that there's a building legal recognition that laws against sex discrimination are incompatible with laws that discriminate against sexual orientation or gender identification. I did not mean that every single person on earth is aware of being at the start of a personal change.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#52
Interestingly the EU recently passed a copyright bill only the other day that will force many ISP's to install low-level content surveillance of their user-base due to article 13 making all intermidiatary's liable for user actions.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/threat-of-inte...

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#53
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ECHR is not a part of the European Union, so Brexit won't take us out of it. However, I believe that the EU requires members be signatories of the ECHR, so Brexit would make leaving it much easier. It's well documented that Theresa May wants to leave the ECHR; somewhat alarming since both Russia and Azerbaijan, countries with comparatively poor records on human rights, are signatories.

In fact, as far as I know the only European states that are not part of ECHR and Council of Europe are the Vatican (since they're a theocracy...), Kosovo since it has limited international recognition, Kazakhstan and Belarus over human rights violations. No European state that'd be eligible has chosen to voluntarily stay outside. Azerbaijan and Russia are the closest to being in trouble of the current members (Russia…

The matter is a little more complex than this, given the EU itself is a signatory to ECHR, so indirectly via the ECJ and so forth decisions via the ECHR can affect any EU member.

Historically the ECHR has been a hugely respected Court, the shame alone of an adverse decision against a State has often been more than enough to prompt action. Most EU states have domestic legislation forcing their courts to interpret domestic statute in a manner compatible with the ECHR. Some go even further. Scotland's parliament, for example, is entirely unable to legislate in a manner incompatible with the ECHR.

In today's world, with its crumbling institutions, who knows if the 'shame' effect still means what it once did.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#54
post #52

Interestingly the EU recently passed a copyright bill only the other day that will force many ISP's to install low-level content surveillance of their user-base due to article 13 making all intermidiatary's liable for user actions. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/threat-of-inte...

Is this interesting? The ECHR and European parliament are not the same organisation or people?

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#55
post #54
post #52

Interestingly the EU recently passed a copyright bill only the other day that will force many ISP's to install low-level content surveillance of their user-base due to article 13 making all intermidiatary's liable for user actions. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/threat-of-inte...

Is this interesting? The ECHR and European parliament are not the same organisation or people?

Well it is interesting that a new law that most people disagree with could be struck down by the courts.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#56
post #42
post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

Or perhaps it's because the EU is a failed project nobody wants or wants to pay for. All of currently relevant 'benefits' of EU membership existed before and will exist after. The EU is becoming increasingly insignificant in terms of global GDP share and will continue to do so. Frankly, I'm an advocate for our security services doing whatever they feel is required in relation to `republicans` in Northern Ireland.

Ah, an advocate for murdering the political opponents of the state.

(Not trolling, that's literally what happened)

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#57
post #29

Anjem Choudary is currently in the news. With the likes of him and his supporters I'm not sure I expect much else. I'd prefer it wasn't done, but even with that we still have bombs and vehicle rampages. What are the alternatives?

The key difference is between "surveil known idiots like Choudary" versus "surveil everyone then try to find terrorism by keyword match". The latter is not only unlawful and unjust but produces a huge number of false positives.

Not sure why that comment's been voted down. Ultimately it's a question - voting down a question... Anyway, I'm not convinced surveilling the high profile people is going to alert you to the people who are off the radar, ie lone wolves. There might be an association between some, but not all. Again, (I think some people struggled to read this in the previous comment), I'm not pro-mass-surveillance, I'm just not convinced that what should be a better situation would be a better situation, ie maybe an unfortunately necessary evil.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#58
post #42
post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

Or perhaps it's because the EU is a failed project nobody wants or wants to pay for. All of currently relevant 'benefits' of EU membership existed before and will exist after. The EU is becoming increasingly insignificant in terms of global GDP share and will continue to do so. Frankly, I'm an advocate for our security services doing whatever they feel is required in relation to `republicans` in Northern Ireland.

> The EU is becoming increasingly insignificant in terms of global GDP share and will continue to do so.

I mean, it’s the second largest entity in terms of nominal GDP after the US, and second largest in terms of PPP GDP after China. As a share of global GDP, sure, it’s diminishing; after all, essentially all developed countries are. It is still very significant, however. Even if you assume that world GDP per capita is ever spread evenly, it’d be nearly 10% (currently, it’s 16% PPP).

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both man and women have the right to enter marriage, which is defined in the document as the union between Man and Women (Much clearer in the french version).

People are starting to realize that this definition is incompatible with rules against gender-based discrimination.

That's only if you believe that discrimination (selection bias) is the same as discrimination (categorizing). There's no apparent failure of logic until you start confusing them (eg "starting to realize"). If some people are starting to believe that the definitions are synonymous, they are wrong and will have to deal with the issues that naturally occur when you confuse ideals with reality. Generally some population group suffers for another population group to be supplicated in an arbitrary way.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#60
post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

That drive includes pushback at limiting the transparency over tax havens/evasion and media ownership, and lower working quality standards.
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