Why Is College in America So Expensive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#51

Post by seibelj » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

pwned1 wrote: post #30

jiveturkey wrote: post #8

TLDR: > Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. “Universities extract money from students because they can,” says Schleicher at the OECD. “It’s the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure.” In places like the United Kingdom, the government limits how much universities can extract by capping tuition. The s…

The same goes for medical care. The article tries to say that university and medical care are somehow competitive or part of a free market. There's no coincidence that both "industries" are the most heavily regulated and subsidized industries in the economy, and they're the most expensive. Consumers of both products are completely divorced from the costs. People just don't think 20-30 years ahead. Student loans will…

I will link to this book over and over: "Overcharged" explains the American medical system and its problems in great detail. Cannot recommend it more. Price obfuscation, third-party payments, and government interference have warped the medical system in ways that will make you laugh (then cry).

https://www.amazon.com/Overcharged-Americans-Much-Health-Car...

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#52

Post by colonelpopcorn » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

IronWolve wrote: post #4

Many western states got together to provide a cheaper alternative to state schools. Western Governors University is about 6k a year and is online and accredited. Its also used for teachers to get their advanced degrees while working full-time jobs. You can also go as fast or slow as you can/want. You could, in theory, do it in 3 years, so 18k TOTAL, that's pretty affordable. No idea if there is an option for eastern…

Alumni of WGU here.

I did mine in about 1 1/2 years of work for < $16k. If anyone is looking to tick the "college educated" box I would highly recommend it as the fastest path to doing that.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#53

Post by bb2018 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

blairbeckwith wrote: post #47

Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is that bad? Living on campus is a privilege, not a right. Students probably can live off-campus for less, but paying $1800/month (guessing that "a year" is ~8 months) for accommodation + food... Really doesn't seem that bad. It's certainly a premium, but it's an entirely optional one and doesn't seem like an extreme one. Add on administration overhead for dorms, etc. Proximit…

I think you are right but when combined with the loan issue commented above it adds to the cost. If students had the choice between dorms and living at home with 15 extra k many would choose to live at home. However, because it is part of the student loan the 15k is not really seen and no one is trying to negotiate lower costs.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#54

Post by rayiner » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

> Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. “Universities extract money from students because they can,” says Schleicher at the OECD. “It’s the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure.”

That assertion makes no sense. In a market economy, almost all prices are unregulated. Yet the prices of TVs, hamburgers, etc., aren't skyrocketing. The lack of regulation is surely not the problem.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#55

Post by armenarmen » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

Exactly. Access to cheap debt will always drive up prices. Lower the interest rates for anything (houses pre recession) and prices skyrocket.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#56

Post by acdanger » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

blairbeckwith wrote: post #47

Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is that bad? Living on campus is a privilege, not a right. Students probably can live off-campus for less, but paying $1800/month (guessing that "a year" is ~8 months) for accommodation + food... Really doesn't seem that bad. It's certainly a premium, but it's an entirely optional one and doesn't seem like an extreme one. Add on administration overhead for dorms, etc. Proximit…

At least at my college, living on campus was required for first-year students.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#57

Post by aidenn0 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #41

Alupis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't dispute that - it's borderline criminal what the University-sanctioned housing charges - particularly when they stack up to 5 people in a single unit! However, in my experience, most students live off-campus these days. There's just not enough student housing, and it's a terrible deal anyhow.

Maybe it’s different now, but when I went to university, costly on-campus housing was mandatory up until your 4th (Senior) year.

It varies greatly from school to school.

Where I went, they didn't even guarantee housing to Freshmen, where my wife went, first 2 years were mandatory on-campus living.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#58

Post by pwthornton » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #9

> Americans spend about $30,000 per student a year—nearly twice as much as the average developed country. This narrative needs to die. Hear me out before judging... Yes, University is expensive! But - a large portion of the numbers you see thrown around include living expenses! The same living expenses a student would incur if they were not attending University. The predominant reason for this is students are still t…

The market is not looking to hire a bunch more unskilled 18 year olds. If the U.S. military wasn't essentially a workforce development program for unskilled 18-year-olds, we would have an even bigger glut.

Your argument is flawed.

This may be true for master's degrees, where it makes sense to work full time and take courses part time, but the idea that it makes sense for a bunch of 18-year-olds to try to compete over a bunch of minimum wage jobs doesn't seem like a great solution. Most jobs for 18 year olds cannot over living expenses and college tuition.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#59

Post by blairbeckwith » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

acdanger wrote: post #56

blairbeckwith wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is that bad? Living on campus is a privilege, not a right. Students probably can live off-campus for less, but paying $1800/month (guessing that "a year" is ~8 months) for accommodation + food... Really doesn't seem that bad. It's certainly a premium, but it's an entirely optional one and doesn't seem like an extreme one. Add on administration overhead for dorms, etc. Proximit…

At least at my college, living on campus was required for first-year students.

I've definitely heard of that, and I don't think it's a terrible idea. I didn't finish college, but looking back I do wish that I had lived on campus for my first year. It always felt like I didn't get the "true" college life experience not living on campus.

As for the requirement piece, it definitely sucks if it's not an expense you can take on without debt and there's no other options in the area. If there are other options, though, then people who can't or won't pay that can just go somewhere else. School's have worse requirements (BYU comes to mind) that people can opt out of by choosing to go somewhere else.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#60

Post by fzeroracer » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #9

> Americans spend about $30,000 per student a year—nearly twice as much as the average developed country. This narrative needs to die. Hear me out before judging... Yes, University is expensive! But - a large portion of the numbers you see thrown around include living expenses! The same living expenses a student would incur if they were not attending University. The predominant reason for this is students are still t…

Okay, so where are these professional jobs going to come from? Last I checked unpaid internships still exist and are a blight for many industries, and although companies would gladly take advantage of free student labor this solves none of the problems with student debt. For other industries finding jobs related to your career while in college can be incredibly difficult; even back when I was in Uni I was in an area where there were zero opportunities for software development internships.

Additionally how do you expect students to balance out both work and college? To draw back into my experiences I frequently would have to spend 3-4 hours after class every day working on projects, doing homework and studying. Time that would seep into my weekends and beyond. Combine that with a full time job and you have a fairly high stress environment.

Other countries have students going to university full time without a problem. So then why is it uniquely an issue in America?