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EU copyright reform: the facts

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Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#51

Post by klmr »

chimeracoder wrote: post #49
klmr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have intentionally ignored "and its member states." I didn’t, but your comment insinuates that it’s all the same. As for restricted individual freedoms, this betrays a lot about your background. EU contries value equal opportunity over individual freedom for a select few. For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does.

> For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does That's not true at all. All you have to do is go to France to see how far Europeans are willing to go to restrict the individual freedoms of minorities. Of course, you won't get data on just how much those groups are in the minority, because France has also conveniently made it illegal to collect this data, but you don…

> All you have to do is go to France

I’ve lived in France for several years. And yes, I agree that France unduly restricts individual freedoms (and protested against it). I’m not claiming that any single country is perfect. I’m claiming that they are, on balance, better than the US (when you’re poor and/or a minority). Basic personal safety is a prerequisite for freedom: If you can’t even be sure that you can afford medical care keeping you alive, or if you need to worry that institutionalised racism means you get shot by police or thrown in jail for a trivial misdemeanour that earns a white person a slap on the wrist … then “freedom” is simply a theoretical concept.

And yes, institutional racism also exists in France (and in every other European country) but it’s much less normalised than in the US.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#52

Post by M2Ys4U »

jimmaswell wrote: post #48
adrianN wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is not a crazy law and it's pretty much the opposite of what you'd expect in a '1984' state.

It unnecessarily limits the freedom of anybody who owns a website and doesn't grant any actual freedom to anybody else, almost as if the governments want to be the only ones allowed to collect data.

The right to privacy is a human right.

It's like saying that laws against torture limit the freedom of anybody who owns thumb screws. Well, yes, because _not being tortured_ is a right that everybody has.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#53

Post by scotty79 »

If we all ignore all copyright it will go away and with it all the nighmares conceived to prop up its rotting corpse.

But it won't happen sooner than before majority of creators learn that copyright does not benefit them in any way.

We can teach them that by never paying for copyrighted things.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#54

Post by GW150914 »

pjc50 wrote: post #21
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

I'm assuming that "bellamy" is a weird autocorrect for "Hitler", in which case I refer to my recent comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17927075 The illegal act was sending the threatening message "gas the jews" through a telecommunications system. The potato peeler incident: https://dailycaller.com/2018/05/03/british-man-arrested-for-... Homeless man with learning difficulties wielding a knife-like object…

Actually the Bellamy Salute was a thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

The Bellamy salute is a palm-out salute described by Francis Bellamy, the author of the American Pledge of Allegiance, as the gesture which was to accompany the pledge. During the period when it was used with the Pledge of Allegiance, it was sometimes known as the "flag salute". Both the Pledge and its salute originated in 1892. Later, during the 1920s and 1930s, Italian fascists and Nazis adopted a salute which was very similar, and which was derived from the Roman salute, a gesture that was popularly (albeit erroneously) believed to have been used in ancient Rome.[1] This resulted in controversy over the use of the Bellamy salute in the United States. It was officially replaced by the hand-over-heart salute when Congress amended the Flag Code on December 22, 1942.

Along with the swastika, just another thing the fascists stole and corrupted.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#55

Post by fermigier »

klmr wrote: post #19
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

That’s pure trolling: First off, the Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament and is expected to be repealed against (but it doesn’t hurt to be cautious, good on Mozilla). > GDPR While not uncontroversial, GDPR is generally seen as a good thing by experts. > arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute This didn’t happen. The man was arrested for hate speech, not for gestures his…

"Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament"

-> Article 13 has not been rejected by the EP.

What has been rejected is a proposal to fast-track the proposal with no debate.

See https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/

"The Legal Affairs Committee narrowly approved the plans (with slight changes) – but in a surprise move, the Parliament then refused to rubber-stamp the Committee’s position, opening it up for further debate."

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#56

Post by fermigier »

Julia Reda's page on the EU Copyright reform is actually the best resource to get the facts right:

https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/

(edit: Not just the facts of course, also her opinion, shared by many organisations and individuals knowledgeable on how the Internet should work, eg. Vinton Cerf or Tim Berners-Lee, see https://www.eff.org/files/2018/06/13/article13letter.pdf).

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#57

Post by distances »

chimeracoder wrote: post #49
klmr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have intentionally ignored "and its member states." I didn’t, but your comment insinuates that it’s all the same. As for restricted individual freedoms, this betrays a lot about your background. EU contries value equal opportunity over individual freedom for a select few. For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does.

> For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does That's not true at all. All you have to do is go to France to see how far Europeans are willing to go to restrict the individual freedoms of minorities. Of course, you won't get data on just how much those groups are in the minority, because France has also conveniently made it illegal to collect this data, but you don…

For someone having no clue on this topic, could you give some examples?

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#58

Post by chimeracoder »

klmr wrote: post #51
chimeracoder wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does That's not true at all. All you have to do is go to France to see how far Europeans are willing to go to restrict the individual freedoms of minorities. Of course, you won't get data on just how much those groups are in the minority, because France has also conveniently made it illegal to collect this data, but you don…

> All you have to do is go to France I’ve lived in France for several years. And yes, I agree that France unduly restricts individual freedoms (and protested against it). I’m not claiming that any single country is perfect. I’m claiming that they are, on balance, better than the US (when you’re poor and/or a minority). Basic personal safety is a prerequisite for freedom: If you can’t even be sure that you can afford…

> And yes, institutional racism also exists in France (and in every other European country) but it’s much less normalised than in the US.

This is the line that white people in France often say, but it's completely wrong. Racism is much more institutionalized in France than it is in the US. Racism is so institutionalized in France that it's almost impossible to talk about it, because it's woven into the legal and societal fabric and so deeply embedded.

> Basic personal safety is a prerequisite for freedom

You are dramatically overestimating the extent to which it is safe to exist in France as someone who is Black, Arab, or Muslim. Which is a common mistake, given that France has literally made it illegal to collect data on police brutality and incarceration rates of minorities in France, the way we can in the US. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or that France isn't also an incredibly dangerous place for minorities - and arguably much more so - as anyone (like myself) who looks Black, Arab, or Muslim and has so much as traveled to France or lived there can attest.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#59

Post by jimmaswell »

chimeracoder wrote: post #58
klmr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All you have to do is go to France I’ve lived in France for several years. And yes, I agree that France unduly restricts individual freedoms (and protested against it). I’m not claiming that any single country is perfect. I’m claiming that they are, on balance, better than the US (when you’re poor and/or a minority). Basic personal safety is a prerequisite for freedom: If you can’t even be sure that you can afford…

> And yes, institutional racism also exists in France (and in every other European country) but it’s much less normalised than in the US. This is the line that white people in France often say, but it's completely wrong. Racism is much more institutionalized in France than it is in the US. Racism is so institutionalized in France that it's almost impossible to talk about it, because it's woven into the legal and soci…

I remember in high school, my French teacher said racism was much more overt over there and in Europe in general.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#60

Post by jimmaswell »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #52
jimmaswell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It unnecessarily limits the freedom of anybody who owns a website and doesn't grant any actual freedom to anybody else, almost as if the governments want to be the only ones allowed to collect data.

The right to privacy is a human right. It's like saying that laws against torture limit the freedom of anybody who owns thumb screws. Well, yes, because _not being tortured_ is a right that everybody has.

Why is it your human right that if you write your name on a piece of paper and give it to someone, you can use the state to force them to give you the paper back or destroy it? That's GDPR.
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