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Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

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Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#51

Tie my kangaroo down sport, that's good news. Now we just need the sleepy EU to wake up so we get their spyware removed from our Mobile Operators infrastructure here!

considering all the downvotes maybe I haven't really explained the problem properly or maybe I deserved it idk. Here some points that I should probably have made clear instead of writing a snappy one-liner without substance.

Banning Huawei isn't going to increase the security or reduces the backdoors. I've been working many years for NEVs and later started a recruiting firm that did OSINT in this domain. First of all Lawful Interception is (as the name implies) legal. Despite the legality and the standardization in ETSI/3GPP the actual implementation of these black boxes is extremely shady & obscure. Siemens COM (now part of Nokia since some years already) for example has outsourced the implementation to their Milan site, where it has been further outsourced (using 2 intermediaries in a cascading supply chain) to a tiny Italian firm that does contracts mainly for the OEMs but other than that has zero vetting of their people (no security clearance etc). Code isn't reviewed and in fact the OEM didn't even have access to the code. I'm bringing this up because the problem isn't only because it's China and as I said has anyway no positive impact on increasing security (just because the company is European or US doesn't make it more trustworthy). Nevertheless if I get spied on (illegally) then I'd much rather have it done by my own jurisdiction which doesn't come after me and my family than by some thick-face black heart dictatorship in Asia.

How Huawei became so successful in EMEA?

#1) access to unlimited funding from Chinese gov. Huawei is financially backed by the state and able to cut out competitors with aggressive pricing in RFP/RFQs (even it doesn't financially make sense - "as long as it hurts the competitor it's a win")

#2) willingness to bid for projects in highly corrupt countries where a suitcase of cash changes hands using shady consultants, and ability to satisfy questionable requests from war-lords & repressive regimes (tailored Lawful Interception & DPI etc)

#3) bribing is illegal for companies located in US or EU (Nokia, Ericsson, ...) but pretty much a non-issue in China. It goes hand in hand with conducting business with the regime.

#4) Stealing the IP of competitors: Either by placing sleepers in other firms or (the easier way) by coercing and leaning on employees of Chinese origin working for competitors.

#5) employs workers under despicable conditions (complex outsourcing layers to ensure bad-PR never directly hits Huawei - questionable supply chain is also bad security)

Again I'm not anti China and I'm happy to rip into CISCO, Juniper, Nokia & Ericsson (and I have done so in the past on plenty occasions).

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#52
Many people seem to dislike the anti-china move. However, let's not forget that china has put over 1 million Muslims in literal concentration or reeducation camps. That's wrong. China needs to stop, and if not buying their cell gear helps, we should consider it too.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#53
post #42
post #25

This is kinda funny and hypocritical when you devote a few brain cells to this. Every country is gathering data on everyone. If you think they are respecting your privacy, you’re naive. The US has been doing it for years. Secretly. EU and I bet you Australia too. And even China, yes. But hey, at least China is honest about what they’re doing. Gotta respect that at least. Point is, it’s just a show.

I'm going to take issue with this, because I see this line of argument a lot on HN recently. There is a fundamental difference between "like in kind" and "like in severity". Do the US and China both monitor telecom? Yes. Has the US built a national firewall? No. Do the US and China both have legal processes for acquiring court ordered telecom intercepts? Yes. Is the US legal system wholly subordinate to political goa…

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#54
post #8

Tie my kangaroo down sport, that's good news. Now we just need the sleepy EU to wake up so we get their spyware removed from our Mobile Operators infrastructure here!

Take it your mobile phone is built in Germany, with German components. ;) It's just a matter of picking your poison. You think your Cisco router has no backdoors? Your Intel CPU? Your Windows OS? Your Gmail account? This isn't about making you safer, it's about removing competition (as crappy as it may have been). And they eliminate competition both economically and in the spying game. The more companies there are th…

What are the backdoors in my Gmail account?

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#55
post #25

This is kinda funny and hypocritical when you devote a few brain cells to this. Every country is gathering data on everyone. If you think they are respecting your privacy, you’re naive. The US has been doing it for years. Secretly. EU and I bet you Australia too. And even China, yes. But hey, at least China is honest about what they’re doing. Gotta respect that at least. Point is, it’s just a show.

To add weight to your point in regards to Australia's hypocrisy, there's an on-going case where a now ex-member of one of Australia's intelligence agencies blew the whistle on Australia's illegal surveillance of the East Timorese government.

Currently they're trying to prosecute the whistle-blower AND his lawyer for "revealing state secrets" as a tactic to draw out the process.

See here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-28/witness-k-and-bernard-...

And for a larger history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_s...

The ASD (Australian Signals Directorate - equivalent to the NSA) mission statement is: Reveal their secrets - Protect our own.

Which I suppose is in keeping with banning any non-purely-Australian-owned vendors from participating in any communications infrastructure project. I don't think there are any purely-home-grown Australian 5G infrastructure manufacturers though.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#56
post #29

"This new architecture provides a way to circumvent traditional security controls by exploiting equipment in the edge of the network – exploitation which may affect overall network integrity and availability, as well as the confidentiality of customer data." Hey Australian Government. You know what also protects confidentiality of customer data? Encryption.

Encryption isn't a magic bullet. If you have good visibility into the network there's a hell of a lot you can do with traffic analysis and metadata. Plus, if you own the end-user device you can just go around the encryption since the data, by definition, has to be displayed to the user decrypted.

It's a hard problem. Encryption is part of the solution, but it's not the solution.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#57
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws of mathematics don't apply in Australia

Seems like he didn't believe the mathematics in the polls either.

He believes in them when it suits him.

"The iron laws of arithmetic confirmed my leadership," (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45266718)

He, like all politicians, also seems to believe in cakes they can both have and eat.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#58
post #53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take issue with this, because I see this line of argument a lot on HN recently. There is a fundamental difference between "like in kind" and "like in severity". Do the US and China both monitor telecom? Yes. Has the US built a national firewall? No. Do the US and China both have legal processes for acquiring court ordered telecom intercepts? Yes. Is the US legal system wholly subordinate to political goa…

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

But China has a worse record of human rights abuses. In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China.

They've all got bad history. If God existed and was to strike down on the unworthy nations of the world, very few would be spared.

And I dislike this as much as any rational person (hello? rational people...?) but if it came to choosing sides in what appears to be inevitable future conflict, I'd choose the US over China and Russia. I hate that it's the case, but the US, I think, is the least worst option. This may be based purely on cultural familiarity, but, well, there it is.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#59

Many people seem to dislike the anti-china move. However, let's not forget that china has put over 1 million Muslims in literal concentration or reeducation camps. That's wrong. China needs to stop, and if not buying their cell gear helps, we should consider it too.

And what are the US kill stats up to recently?

There are no good guys.

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