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Redis will remain BSD licensed

antirez.com

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Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#51

Post by protomyth »

antirez wrote: post #32
protomyth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've the feeling that in US it is used by right-wing people No, both sides love using the term about anything the other side says.

Ok, good reason to avoid this term. Indeed here it's happening as well... instead of understanding that the point is always to verify the information and their sources, "fake news" is becoming a quick way to dismiss what other people are saying, without actually bringing any more source.

Its actually getting pretty hard to write anything these days without someone getting offended (witness the message you are replying to).

In a lot of ways, I really don't blame the current political climate, because the US has seen way worse (read up on the US 1800 Presidential Election). I actually blame poor applications of algorithms to what folks view. The bias caused not only by the beliefs of the person training the box and the professional poster's ability to learn how to manipulate the results (the next generation of SEO) has increasingly made twitter and facebook painful to use. Add a large bit of tribalism that is baked right into humanity and you have a lot of fun. Further strain through the idea that a lot of companies won't even just let the users pick accounts they always want to see regardless of the beliefs of the provider, and you get a added bit of helpless feeling in the populace.

Which makes writing a pain. I've seen some folks take offense at grant applications that are basically some of the most dry reading you will find. It once was a don't use this era's forbidden words (e.g. the word "empower" had a very strange evolution in grants). Now its memes.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#52

Post by artursapek »

antirez wrote: post #40
endorphone wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Redis is an example of this paradigm. Today, most cloud providers offer Redis as a managed service over their infrastructure and enjoy huge income from software that was not developed by them. Redis’ permissive BSD open source license allows them to do so legally, but this must be changed" Crying fake news (which has been co-opted to mean "real news that I don't like or that you shouldn't pay attention to") complete…

I admit that the communication was not great, but the announcement never said Redis would switch. Maybe I'm a bit biased, because before Redis Labs doing this license switch, we internally even agreed about taking the core BSD, so the goals of the company were always clear, regardless of the fact that this page in the company web site was unclear. But "Redis switching license" was factually incorrect since the start…

I understand what you mean. I think you called it "fake news" because you were frustrated about reporters/bloggers/twitter personalities spreading a story without bothering to do any research to see if it's true (because the story is dramatic and easy to spread). The reason people are having issues with you using that term is it has developed a strong association with state-sponsored propaganda campaigns (see: Russia during 2016 election) rather than just lazy, half-assed "journalism", which is what this was. Both of these are real problems, but I wouldn't call the latter "fake news" because it wasn't manufactured by a party intending to harm you. It was just journalists being lazy.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#53

Post by codingdave »

rauhl wrote: post #37

> An example of such module is RediSearch: it was AGPL and is now going to be Apache + Common Clause. Sounds to me like the right thing to do here for Free Software proponents is to download the latest AGPL RediSearch, fork it and continue development.

HN needs a feature to say, "Hey! We haven't talked in forever, wanna catch up?" when we notice comments from people we worked with many years ago but haven't talked to in forever.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#54

Post by [deleted] »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #3

> However in the fake news era my attempts to provide the correct information failed Eww. This actually removes credibility from the announcement, given the way the term "fake news" continues to be used to distract from objective truth.

[deleted]

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#55

Post by Yiftach »

Hi, this is Yiftach, CTO and Co-founder of Redis Labs. First, let me assure you that Redis remains and always will remain, open source, BSD license. For avoiding any doubt - commons clause (as defined in commonsclause.com) is applied only to add-ons (modules), on top of Redis (e.g. RediSearch, Redis Graph, ReJSON, Redis-ML, Rebloom) that were developed by Redis Labs .

We initially released these modules under AGPL license but found two major drawbacks (a) AGPL does not prevent cloud providers (such as AWS) from building managed services from these modules, and (b) we got requests from developers, working at large enterprises to move from AGPL to a more permissive license, because the use of AGPL is against their company’s policy.

In addition, a few people here (and other threads) have asked why we didn’t create a new proprietary license, like those offered by Elastic or MaraiaDB? Well, Commons Clause was created by a coalition of several OSS infrastructure companies, some of which use a different OSS licenses. In order to maintain a standard framework we decided to piggyback the restriction (on creating managed services by cloud providers) on any existing OSS license.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#56

Post by kawsper »

radus wrote: post #24

I think that this clears up questions about redis itself, but doesn't address the concern than future development will be focused on new modules rather than the core - akin to Google Play Services vs. Android.

It makes me wonder if we would have ever received an open-source redis-cluster if it was developed today, and it makes me afraid that it won't stay open like today.

InfluxDB moved their cluster implementation to their enterprise product behind an undisclosed amount of dollars if you want to self-host.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#57

Post by ksec »

antirez wrote: post #17
js2 wrote: post #15

antirez: I understand your frustration and don’t mean to take away from the message, but please consider removing “fake news” from the wording. It unnecessarily politicizes the post and really leaves a bad taste. “Fake news” is the term of art that politicians are using to criticize true stories that they don’t like. In this case, you’re trying to correct an actual falsehood. The spreading of falsehoods and their bei…

Thanks, I removed fake news because I've the feeling that in US it is used by right-wing people, here in Italy it's the current government that is the master of fake news and is used by our left-wings to criticize what they do. In the doubt I changed the wording. I did not expect the term to be political.

The lessons learned here is don't use any word that is being used by US politicians. As Americans are extremely sensitive to politics.

Although I do understand your frustration with news media and the echo chambers echoing precisely the wrong thing without making any attempt in correction.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#58

Post by daveFNbuck »

antirez wrote: post #10
acjohnson55 wrote: post #3

> However in the fake news era my attempts to provide the correct information failed Eww. This actually removes credibility from the announcement, given the way the term "fake news" continues to be used to distract from objective truth.

What I mean is that even after the project leader tells you it was just some confusion, the Github project still is marked as BSD, and nothing is written in the original announcement clearly stating that Redis would switch license, it is a bit strange that the information continues to spread regardless of what I continued to say.

There are two usages for the term "fake news".

The original one was news that's completely made up without reference facts. This term was created to describe sites that generate fictional news stories to support an agenda or get clicks.

The second one is news that is negative about you. This usage was created as a deflection from the actual problem of fiction being sold as fact, and has become the primary usage. It is an attack on news not for whether it's correct, but for how it makes you look.

Neither of these apply to an honest miscommunication, and they both describe the people who misunderstood the announcement as malicious enemies rather than the concerned fans of Redis they more likely are.

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

antirez wrote: post #17
js2 wrote: post #15

antirez: I understand your frustration and don’t mean to take away from the message, but please consider removing “fake news” from the wording. It unnecessarily politicizes the post and really leaves a bad taste. “Fake news” is the term of art that politicians are using to criticize true stories that they don’t like. In this case, you’re trying to correct an actual falsehood. The spreading of falsehoods and their bei…

Thanks, I removed fake news because I've the feeling that in US it is used by right-wing people, here in Italy it's the current government that is the master of fake news and is used by our left-wings to criticize what they do. In the doubt I changed the wording. I did not expect the term to be political.

> I removed fake news because I've the feeling that in US it is used by right-wing people

It was adopted by right-wing (specifically, pro-Trump) people in the US specifically to drown out its earlier use to describe pro-Trump propaganda that followed what RAND Corp had described as the “firehose of falsehoods” propaganda approach used by Russia in other contexts (and which, it is increasingly evident, did so because it was in fact, often engineered by the same people who engineered the Russian propaganda that that label described.)

Re: Redis will remain BSD licensed

#60

Post by stefantalpalaru »

dilap wrote: post #23
antirez wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly my colleagues did a poor job with such an announcement there, and I did not get a chance to read it (which is actually a good thing, it means that the OSS division, I'm part of, is independent and can work to the Github repositories without caring about what the commercial side does). But it was kinda of a manifest to announce that certain things made inside Redis Labs are now Common Clause licensed. In doub…

It was clear to me from a careful reading that the page did not refer to Redis, but it also seemed deliberately designed to suggest that it did. It seemed pretty scummy. And the name itself of "Commons Clause" is practically a tiny version of fake news, since it tries to give an "open source" feeling to what is essentially a proprietary license. As a practical/PR matter, I think Redis Labs have likely shot themselves…

> It was clear to me from a careful reading that the page did not refer to Redis

You must have missed this part from the original announcement:

"Today, most cloud providers offer Redis as a managed service over their infrastructure and enjoy huge income from software that was not developed by them. Redis’ permissive BSD open source license allows them to do so legally, but this must be changed. Redis Labs is leading and financing the development of open source Redis and deserves to enjoy the fruits of these efforts. Consequently, we decided to add Commons Clause to certain components of open source Redis. Cloud providers will no longer be able to use these components as part of their Redis-as-a-Service offerings, but all other users will be unaffected by this change."

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