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Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

bmj.com

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Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#51

Post by cryoshon »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #35
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

This is the kind of snide remark that drives me crazy. Treating addiction as a disease will not fix anything except put more money in the drug companies pockets (which is why they push this narrative). Treating diseases is amazingly more ineffective than preventing the disease. Preventing addiction is not something we like to talk about. Our drug companies and government have been amazingly complicity in pushing pain…

treating addiction as a disease has brought us drugs like chantix (varenicline), among others. it is very profitable for them to first create an addiction, then offer the solution.

i agree that the drug companies will continue to profit from pitching addiction as a medical problem, and it is very true that preventing addiction is far easier than treating it.

regrettably, preventing addiction is not something our society is geared up for. if anything, we are in the mode of causing addictions for the purpose of profit -- whether by social media or by opiates. our society inflicts enormous pains on people and drives them to escapism via drugs as a result. the rat park experiment is very enlightening in this regard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

the treatments for depression are, unfortunately, a way of compensating for the deprived and stressful environment in which we live. it is this environment that i suspect is the root cause of the widespread prevalence of depression, though there is probably a sizable population of people who develop depression regardless of their environment. antidepressants are intended to help the latter group, but are used for both the former and the latter.

as we know, the antidepressants don't definitively solve any underlying neurobiological problem, though they may save a few lives and empower some people to change their life's circumstances and ultimately recover. is it better for someone to be reducing their pain using antidepressants rather than street drugs? certainly.

you mention ADHD, but i think your angle on it isn't exactly in the same bucket as depression. people with ADHD are at extremely high risk of addiction. i imagine that if we could reliably treat ADHD and increase awareness regarding the disorder's attendant comorbidities, we would be preventing many addictions before they could develop.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#52

Post by tribesman »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

> Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

My friend who died from heroine overdose.

Here is his story, my friend got banned from online forums. In his opinion, he was banned for posting political rants. And moderator told him, do not do this here. So, he felt is not accepted in the community and got addicited to heroine.

These days, some moderators think they are lords of the universe and ban anyone like a robot.

It's failure of the soceity in part of his personal failure.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#53

Post by pjc50 »

dominotw wrote: post #16
nautilus12 wrote: post #14

We are too stressed in the US. Our companies don't treat employees like people, treat them like automotas. No paternity leave, very very little maternity leave. 2 weeks vacation. We are working too hard and burning our selves out.

> we are working too hard and burning our selves out. Are we? Every single medium-big sized company I've worked was overstaffed to the gills, you could fire about 40-60% of ppl and no one would notice. If you work for any online ecommerce company you would notice that their main shopping time is during work hours.

Not necessarily a contradiction; many of those people will be diligently producing the appearance of work, which is most simply measured by long hours.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#54

Post by simonsarris »

bilbo0s wrote: post #23

Sounds like Americans have had a marked decrease in mental and physical health over the time period analyzed. (1999-2016). I think maybe easier access to healthcare, mental and physical, could help? Also a lot of this might be signs of an overworked populace? (How many jobs are people working to make ends meet? Do the ends meet after all the jobs are worked? etc). So we should probably look at that as well. But I thi…

> I think maybe easier access to healthcare, mental and physical, could help?

I agree with almost everything else you have said. But this line has got to go from the most-common-reply-to-this-problem.

I think it's a huge canard, probably the biggest political canard in existence today, and there are far bigger problems that this presumption (that healthcare is what's needed) masks.

Just as you say, I think there are deep-seated problems with how we structure our society/lives/even just getting about, how we eat, how we are able to (or not) meet new people and create chance encounters, that do not happen for the vast majority of people. Problems that are new in the post 1800's world and seem to only be getting worse.

I do not think the solution is contained anywhere near "more healthcare." Our use in the US already tremendous, more than most countries and most time periods ever in existence. I do not think the solution is "more mental healthcare", unless you mean actually creating and inhabiting communities again, instead of living from space bubble to space bubble. I do not think that's what people mean when they say mental healthcare. Usually they mean hire more therapists instead of create more places where it's easier to have friends meet and people congregate.

It doesn't even pass the sniff test. If the answer was really more healthcare: When has the US consumed more healthcare (mental or physical) than today? In fact if some amount of healthcare = dispensing pills, it seems like this report proves that too much healthcare is one of the biggest contributors to this mortality problem.

I really wish people would stop repeating that statement and start focusing more on what else has gone wrong. I think you are on to something important with the rest of your post, but its too easy for people to drown it out with demanding that "healthcare" do something. I think it's a shame.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#55

Post by jtuente »

Alex3917 wrote: post #45
st26 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds very anecdotal.

Almost definitely. I'm seeing this move toward pragmatism across medicine though. E.g. even my infant daughter is getting recommendations from her pediatrician that don't adhere strictly to the AAP or WHO guidelines.

Umm, isn't that why they're called guidelines instead of rules or laws? They're a generalized solution for the populace at large which may be adjusted for individuals as their needs differ. Comparatively, BMI is a guideline and body fat/cholesterol/activity levels/nutrition intake are the more important drivers to health that determine what changes need to be made for improvement.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#56

Post by sunshinelackof »

dominotw wrote: post #16
nautilus12 wrote: post #14

We are too stressed in the US. Our companies don't treat employees like people, treat them like automotas. No paternity leave, very very little maternity leave. 2 weeks vacation. We are working too hard and burning our selves out.

> we are working too hard and burning our selves out. Are we? Every single medium-big sized company I've worked was overstaffed to the gills, you could fire about 40-60% of ppl and no one would notice. If you work for any online ecommerce company you would notice that their main shopping time is during work hours.

Ironically it's more stressful for someone to do less work and put on a farce. He's always worried he'll be called out and have nothing to show for it.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#57

Post by zepto »

bilbo0s wrote: post #23

Sounds like Americans have had a marked decrease in mental and physical health over the time period analyzed. (1999-2016). I think maybe easier access to healthcare, mental and physical, could help? Also a lot of this might be signs of an overworked populace? (How many jobs are people working to make ends meet? Do the ends meet after all the jobs are worked? etc). So we should probably look at that as well. But I thi…

It almost seems like you didn’t read the paper.

It shows that the vast majority of the trend is attributable to drug overdoses, and then suicide and alcohol related liver disease are also significantly increased. Other diseases have also increased but are dwarfed by these factors.

So your conclusion seems like it throws away the actual insights provided by the research.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#58

Post by saltcured »

cryoshon wrote: post #46
nautilus12 wrote: post #14

We are too stressed in the US. Our companies don't treat employees like people, treat them like automotas. No paternity leave, very very little maternity leave. 2 weeks vacation. We are working too hard and burning our selves out.

agreed. it turns out that when people are treated like capital, they depreciate, much like other forms of capital.

Ah, but if you put enough together, they start making more on their own!

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#59

Post by kjeetgill »

CptFribble wrote: post #36
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

I don't think addiction is a disease or a moral failing, it's more a product of the environment of the addict. Case in point: up to 20% of soldiers in Vietnam were addicted to heroin during the war, and up to 40% had tried it, but when they came home only about 5% remained addicted. See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1521-0391.... There are many factors in a person's life that lead to addiction, a…

> formalized system of getting people out of the environments in which they became addicted as part of the treatment.

Isn't that what going to rehab is about? For those who can afford it atleast...

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

CptFribble wrote: post #36
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

I don't think addiction is a disease or a moral failing, it's more a product of the environment of the addict. Case in point: up to 20% of soldiers in Vietnam were addicted to heroin during the war, and up to 40% had tried it, but when they came home only about 5% remained addicted. See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1521-0391.... There are many factors in a person's life that lead to addiction, a…

> I don't think addiction is a disease or a moral failing, it's more a product of the environment of the addict.

Diseases are very often products of the environment.

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