Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#51

Post by amelius » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #26

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

well one bad trend recently in HVAC services is companies trying to get people to lease the units for their homes. this then prevent easy sale as the HVAC leases usually allow the leasing company to require payment in full for the units or credit check the buyer to insure continuance of the lease. So I disagree with your premise based on the example you gave. I would say it would be fine with items you only keep a fe…

> because many companies still want their reputation to be built upon longevity

History shows otherwise:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#52

Post by ModernMech » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #22

I share the observation that we are living in a "rent economy" of the things we pay for, especially intellectual property or creative works. I've noticed it happening slowly over time, but there are dangers[0] even if you believe you "own" your media. There are no good solutions, people are willing to trade ownership for convenience because /mostly/ you're getting the same value- why do you care if you can't access t…

I'm exactly the opposite. I'm happy that all my media is digital. If it's gone one day, I'll find new media to love and enjoy. If it's something I can't live without, I might hang on to it for a while, but I've been around long enough now that I know something I "can't live without" today is just another thing that will be forgotten and replaced eventually.

I've found that every physical thing I own has an ongoing cost. Firs there is the obvious cost of physically storing the thing. Then there is the labor cost of cleaning it and keeping it nice. Then there is the mental cost of remembering where it is. And finally there is a cost of worrying about it. What if the house burns down? You spend a lot of time and money and effort preventing and planning for such an event that may never occur at all. And for those of us who have lost everything that way, coming to the realization that it's all just stuff feels like anti-gravity. It's like living on Jupiter your entire life and then moving to the Moon.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#53

Post by nemo44x » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

It's only a single example but vinyl record ownership has continuously increased dramatically over the last few years and continues to do so. Maybe if you make an object worth possessing against the digital version, they'll be an audience for it?

The important discussion should be not about American's losing their idea of private ownership but about American's learning the idea of owning their information and data about them. I don't care that I stream media, use SaaS for email or don't own a car but rather rely on ride share and public transit. But what I do care about is the companies that provide these services are brokerages for data about me.

I'm not aware of a single American politician who has as a prime issue the idea of private data ownership. That we can make laws that ensure that any data gathered about you belong to you and that companies are privileged to use it and do not get to dictate terms around it. That if you want to do business in a way that includes personal data of any kind then there are laws you have to follow that greatly restrict what you can do with that data. That upon request every single data point about a person can be disclosed to that person and how you've used that data and an audit trail with regards to that information.

Civil Rights for private data could be a thing.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#54

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #35

ilamont wrote: post #15

Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text. Fifteen years ago, people typically owned the books and magazines they were reading. Much less so now. The statements about books are not accurate. Ebook sales are still just a fraction of print sales in many genres - NPD data indicates ebooks are less than 20% of total unit sales for nonfiction, children, and young ad…

Anecdotal, but every reader I know (including me) flirted with ebooks and then switched back to paper. For me, it’s less strain on my eyes, it always works even without electricity, I can lend it out to friends easily, and I like to expand the aesthetic of my bookshelf. I’m also more likely to reread all or part of a physical book. Ebooks are simply inferior.

As long as it's mostly just flowing text, I much prefer ebooks. A lot of my long form reading happens when I travel and a tablet or a Kindle Paperwhite works much better than a book in poorly-lit planes or hotel rooms.

Sure, there's an aesthetic to certain books but that doesn't apply to the random paperback or even popular hardcover novel. And I appreciate the decrease in clutter. I recently donated a bunch of older "classic" paperbacks that are works I can download for free or near-free anytime I want.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#55

Post by grogenaut » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #21

The issue is that ownership used to constitute a form of wealth, but now it constitutes a relentless financial drain. When I got stationed in Northern Virginia, I thought about buying a condo. But almost everywhere I looked, there were absurd HOA fees, some as much as $400/mo. Considering I could rent a room for $750/mo, it didn't make sense to buy. If RENT As for physical possessions, they all cost money (in rent!).…

If how+mortgage is even slightly more than rent you still end up doing well as soon as you are able to clear the agent and closing costs in recouping. Renting is easier to move for sure. But stay there 3 years and the story may be different. Stay there 8 years and you're making out well over rent. But being statitioned I can see why you might not. Then again I have friends with rentals in 5 cities for the same reason.

Still not as easy as a truck. I drive mine into the ground too. Not just to figure out if selling a used one or getting the trade-in is the most effective use. Buying new car way less effective than buying a good in shape 16 year old accurately for $1700 currently. I value more varied vehicles over one nice one. it's also nice to say well this one didn't start today oh well how bout this one.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#56

Post by zrail » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #35

ilamont wrote: post #15

Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text. Fifteen years ago, people typically owned the books and magazines they were reading. Much less so now. The statements about books are not accurate. Ebook sales are still just a fraction of print sales in many genres - NPD data indicates ebooks are less than 20% of total unit sales for nonfiction, children, and young ad…

Anecdotal, but every reader I know (including me) flirted with ebooks and then switched back to paper. For me, it’s less strain on my eyes, it always works even without electricity, I can lend it out to friends easily, and I like to expand the aesthetic of my bookshelf. I’m also more likely to reread all or part of a physical book. Ebooks are simply inferior.

Counter-anecdata: I have purchased and read far more ebooks than I have paper books in the last decade. I currently use a Kindle Paperwhite at a somewhat large type size which has completely relieved my eye strain.

Also after having moved my books between four apartments and our current house, the next time we move I’m prepared to just toss the lot of them.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#57

Post by TaylorAlexander » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

EADGBE wrote: post #50

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An essentially never discussed option is also that the fridge could be open source. Now when it breaks there is both motive and opportunity for third party repair companies to offer upgrades and fixes.

Needing to make a fridge open sources screams at me that we really need to be simplifying the operation of a fridge. I think component complication for planned obsolescence is much more of a thing than programming something in X years to kill itself.

Err it depends on your outlook. I’m such a hacker at heart I literally want everything I own to be open source.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#58

Post by ModernMech » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #41

claydavisss wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But society has willfully embraced living "in the present"...who here would give up their SF rental in exchange for a property in Gilroy they will eventually own? How many here would give up their leased 2018 BMW for a used Toyota Yaris?

I mean this is all what I’m considering. I hate working day in and day out in the Bay Area. I grew up in the Santa Cruz mountains in the forest and now I commute through an asphalt jungle to a concrete building where I’m pampered every day like a fragile snowflake. I’m constantly working to figure out how I could afford a home in the outskirts of this region. I’ve already moved from an Audi to a Honda although it’s k…

I did exactly this. I gave up my $3500 apartment in SF and moved to the central valley. People in SF and the Bay shit all over the central valley, but I've never been happier.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#59

Post by Semaphor » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:48 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #35

ilamont wrote: post #15

Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text. Fifteen years ago, people typically owned the books and magazines they were reading. Much less so now. The statements about books are not accurate. Ebook sales are still just a fraction of print sales in many genres - NPD data indicates ebooks are less than 20% of total unit sales for nonfiction, children, and young ad…

Anecdotal, but every reader I know (including me) flirted with ebooks and then switched back to paper. For me, it’s less strain on my eyes, it always works even without electricity, I can lend it out to friends easily, and I like to expand the aesthetic of my bookshelf. I’m also more likely to reread all or part of a physical book. Ebooks are simply inferior.

Opposite for me (for fiction). I started reading ebooks with the original Kindle keyboard and never looked back. I always felt that books were cluttering everything up (I read 20-60 per year), I enjoy not having my arms hurt from holding books in an awkward position and I feel that the eInk display is just as good as books, but it's better for reading in some light conditions.

I still buy books once in a while, but those are either non-fiction or I want them for the pictures (e.g. a book by Brom whom I knew through his art on MtG cards)

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#60

Post by EADGBE » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:48 PM UTC

Someguywhatever wrote: post #7

>We used to buy DVDs or video cassettes; now viewers stream movies or TV shows with Netflix This I don't care about really. Although I remember Richard Stallman wrote a satirical article about there being no libraries and having to pay to read anything (as in pay to read per page or something kind of ridiculous) now his article doesn't feel so ridiculous anymore. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html T…

Sometimes it's just not worth it to own everything. Renting makes a lot of sense for a lot of people. Blockbuster et al were doing this forever ago. If you only cared to watch/use something once; renting it made a lot of sense, and still does.