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IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

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Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#51

Honesty I don't get why a company has to go public and gamble its future on a herd of people that they have no clue about the business and just try to make profit out of you based on speculation. Stay private and get loans. At least loan rates will not change by 1000% overnight based on some nonsense that someone wrote on his Twitter.

Companies debt / covenants doesn't change on a tweet you normally agree x% for Y years

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#52
post #20

I posted this article because we’re planning to do the same and wanted to gather thoughts from the tech community (the financial community has commented on this sufficiently to help inform our process). I thought it might help to share our motivations for eventually listing our company vs taking more VC: a. The public markets force transparency. This aligns with our values. b. Governance enforced by VCs (especially i…

This seems like a perfect argument for ICOs. Tokens have several additional favorable properties. I think this new paradigm subsumes the ipo/direct listing debate.

Great read: https://news.earn.com/thoughts-on-tokens-436109aabcbe

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#53
post #29
post #20

I posted this article because we’re planning to do the same and wanted to gather thoughts from the tech community (the financial community has commented on this sufficiently to help inform our process). I thought it might help to share our motivations for eventually listing our company vs taking more VC: a. The public markets force transparency. This aligns with our values. b. Governance enforced by VCs (especially i…

Why are you trying to provide "reasons"? You'r a company. You just want to make the maximum amount of money. Everyone knows this. Why try to pretend anything else?

Why are you so cynical? When a company does anything its essentially to make money but we can laud companies for positive decisions or criticize them for negative ones.

SPOT's decision actually hands more money to the real investors over large institutions or individuals with lots of wealth that get to get in on the IPO strike price and cash out after a few days or hours into the market opening.

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#54
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of owning part of a company is to collect dividends and/or sell your shares for more than you bought them for. But without going public, it can be difficult to do the latter.

This doesn't seem true. What about having voting rights on board members/company direction? How do worker-owned co-ops even function if this is the 'whole point of owning part of a company'. Why do we take 'maximize shareholder value' as though it's some rule handed down by god and the only possible way to operate a company, public or otherwise? It just isn't the case.

That is how worker coops work all members are share holders one member one vote.

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means that stock picking is way more dangerous than a well diversified "safe" Fund like most retirement accounts push you to invest in (with high management fees of course).

Retirement accounts can just as easily invest in Vanguard funds, side-stepping the 'high management fees' issue of target-date funds. Picking is more dangerous when you're playing to retire vs. playing to build wealth. Further, your asset mix should become more and more conservative over time.

That depends on your 401k. I agree that if you can switch to one with vanguard funds that's definitely the most optimal

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#56
post #30
post #20

I posted this article because we’re planning to do the same and wanted to gather thoughts from the tech community (the financial community has commented on this sufficiently to help inform our process). I thought it might help to share our motivations for eventually listing our company vs taking more VC: a. The public markets force transparency. This aligns with our values. b. Governance enforced by VCs (especially i…

> e. Friends and family and supporters can participate - especially from their retirement accounts. This is really important - the wealth creation being broad has a real good-news feel. Sharing the wealth. It's a really bad idea to do stock picking, or any other risky investment strategy, with your retirement account, and a really bad idea to promote it. One company goes bust and suddenly you lost your retirement sav…

Yes and no. I read in Brealey-Myers [1] that you can get 80-90% of the way to pure beta (market risk) by picking 15-20 stocks. You just have to pick ones that aren't super correlated, e.g. 10 pharmaceutical companies.

Whether it's worth your time messing about with this is a separate matter entirely.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Corporate-Finance-Richard-...

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#57
post #20

I posted this article because we’re planning to do the same and wanted to gather thoughts from the tech community (the financial community has commented on this sufficiently to help inform our process). I thought it might help to share our motivations for eventually listing our company vs taking more VC: a. The public markets force transparency. This aligns with our values. b. Governance enforced by VCs (especially i…

[deleted]

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means that stock picking is way more dangerous than a well diversified "safe" Fund like most retirement accounts push you to invest in (with high management fees of course).

Retirement accounts can just as easily invest in Vanguard funds, side-stepping the 'high management fees' issue of target-date funds. Picking is more dangerous when you're playing to retire vs. playing to build wealth. Further, your asset mix should become more and more conservative over time.

It depends on how you define conservative.

The typical guidance is to shift towards bonds and short-term instruments in a fund or ETF over time. The problem with that is that the yields have been poor for many years.

A nominally safe investment like the Vanguard Short Term Gov Bond ETF is down in real and nominal terms over the last decade.

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#59
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you trying to provide "reasons"? You'r a company. You just want to make the maximum amount of money. Everyone knows this. Why try to pretend anything else?

Companies aren't just supposed to make the maximum amount of money. If they were, then everything would be a bank. Companies are better thought of machines, like tractors or printing presses. You buy a tractor and a printing press to ultimately make money, but the tractor and the printing press actually DO things. That is why it's importing to provide reasons.

Sort of. Banks don't actually have that high of return on equity compared to industrials.

I tend to think of it more like a source/sink model. Some companies are net sources of capital: agencies, most manufacturers, etc. Then there are sinks: railroads, blast furnaces, semiconductor plants. Sources produce free cash flow, sinks are a great way to earn x% on a billion or three of capital (not as easy as it seems).

This is how Berkshire runs their balance sheet and it's pretty smart.

Re: IPOs are expensive and cumbersome – Try a direct listing, like we did at Spotify

#60
post #20

I posted this article because we’re planning to do the same and wanted to gather thoughts from the tech community (the financial community has commented on this sufficiently to help inform our process). I thought it might help to share our motivations for eventually listing our company vs taking more VC: a. The public markets force transparency. This aligns with our values. b. Governance enforced by VCs (especially i…

> Secondaries - shares sold by employees or early investors - can be sold at any time, at fair market value

This is a consistently under-appreciated part of modern venture markets. (Disclaimer: it's also one I'm involved with.)

Spotify did $16 to 20 billion of private secondaries in just the first month and a half of 2018 [1]. This gave shareholders public-like liquidity, reducing pressure on management. It also gave public investors years of price history.

[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1639920/000119312518... page 170

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