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The Secret API of Banks

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Re: The Secret API of Banks

#53
post #42
post #8

For those in the EU there's something interesting coming next year, banks need to provide open API to interact with each other: https://thenextweb.com/worldofbanking/2018/06/27/openbanking... Already right now in Germany there are a lot of banks that share a common API format which is why there are a lot of banking apps where you can just log into your bank and don't need bank specific apps. It's called HBCI / FinTS…

PSD2 and “open” banking is bullshit. I wish this myth would die - it is anything but “open”. If you want to gain access to API s , you need to become an “AISP” (as they are called in the UK), this requires a certification and a load of other nonsense akin to PCI-DSS. This is for read-only access - for “write” access including the ability to edit payees or make payments you need to become a “PISP” which I assume requi…

Ha I knew it was bullshit! Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#54
I guess it's not popular or all that well-known anymore, but for quite a while there's been a Quicken-led banking interface for some banks. Known as OFX or Direct Connect, it provides at least one-way (download) access to banking transactions. I think there's a way to upload as well but have never used it nor had a bank that supports it for upload.

My bank has a separate enrollment - it was free - offering download-only access to my transactions. I haven't used it in awhile (just too much on my plate) but it worked well as recently as 2016.

https://github.com/aqbanking/aqbanking is one open implementation for the interface.

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What user facing aspects bug you the most?

- Instant, ultra-low cost inner-bank transfers. None of this "wait a day (or more)" ACH business or "send money via paypal, but then have to wait a day (or more) to ACH it into a real bank account". Useful for everything from paying friends back to moving money between two personal accounts. - ubiquitous NFC-based payment systems

We have this in the UK with "faster payments".

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#56
post #42
post #8

For those in the EU there's something interesting coming next year, banks need to provide open API to interact with each other: https://thenextweb.com/worldofbanking/2018/06/27/openbanking... Already right now in Germany there are a lot of banks that share a common API format which is why there are a lot of banking apps where you can just log into your bank and don't need bank specific apps. It's called HBCI / FinTS…

PSD2 and “open” banking is bullshit. I wish this myth would die - it is anything but “open”. If you want to gain access to API s , you need to become an “AISP” (as they are called in the UK), this requires a certification and a load of other nonsense akin to PCI-DSS. This is for read-only access - for “write” access including the ability to edit payees or make payments you need to become a “PISP” which I assume requi…

"...the regulation does not mandate any kind of API format.."

That isn't true. Anybody which wants to be in the UK Open Banking Group (mandatory for the 9 biggest banks) must follow these very strict specs:

https://openbanking.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/DZ/pages/16385...

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#57
post #35

In the UK the fintech (Financial Tech) scene is becoming more prevalent, for the better. Recently I switched to a new online-only bank called Monzo. It's fully licensed and all accounts are insured up to a certain amount by the UK government. It's great. They're in the top charts for apps in the UK now on the iOS App Store. There's a few other alternatives like Starling Bank and Revolut too. They're very good. They'r…

This is, on one hand, great. I made the switch to a similar bank myself a few years back. What I failed to realise at the time was how exposed I became to the vulnerabilities associated with being cashless. Cash is not just an ancient relic. Cash is an ancient relic and a fundamental component of a free society. My country has, in practise, become nearly cashless and I used to be proud to be one of the very early ado…

I guess that's the target for anonymous cryptocurrencies like Monero and ZCash?

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#58
post #42
post #8

For those in the EU there's something interesting coming next year, banks need to provide open API to interact with each other: https://thenextweb.com/worldofbanking/2018/06/27/openbanking... Already right now in Germany there are a lot of banks that share a common API format which is why there are a lot of banking apps where you can just log into your bank and don't need bank specific apps. It's called HBCI / FinTS…

PSD2 and “open” banking is bullshit. I wish this myth would die - it is anything but “open”. If you want to gain access to API s , you need to become an “AISP” (as they are called in the UK), this requires a certification and a load of other nonsense akin to PCI-DSS. This is for read-only access - for “write” access including the ability to edit payees or make payments you need to become a “PISP” which I assume requi…

> If you want to gain access to APIs, you need to become an “AISP”

It's more complicated than that.

Banks can give unregulated entities access to their APIs, but they don't because IMO providing API access is directly opposed to their interests. If you want to be statutorily entitled to API access you need to be a registered AISP or PISP.

Unfortunately what an AIS is is very specific, i.e. showing the account owner aggregated information, before or after processing, about one or more payment accounts. If your product doesn't do this, e.g. credit scoring using the user's bank transactions instead of credit bureaux, then you're not performing a regulated activity, therefore the regulator has nothing to authorise, and you can't enjoy the resulting entitlement of API access.

This means there are whole classes of (unregulated) applications that won't be allowed to exist by banks if they adopt the position of granting access only to regulated entities.

> this requires a certification and a load of other nonsense akin to PCI-DSS

AIS and PIS have become regulated activities as a result of PSD2. This is not the same as PCI-DSS. Becoming a (P|A)ISP means becoming supervised by the local regulator as an authorised financial institution. This involves a lot of paperwork, a £1,500 application fee, insurance, fees for any professional services you needed to complete the application (lawyer), and 3 months (longer if your application is incomplete or has other issues).

> for “write” access including the ability to edit payees or make payments you need to become a “PISP” which I assume requires even more paperwork.

And €50,000 own capital requirements.

> I also said APIs because the regulation does not mandate any kind of API format, so every bank has their own with different capabilities as far as what data is returned and in which format. Some of them are truly awful.

This is true at the moment for Europe but notionally incorrect for the 9 largest banks in the UK, which are subject to parallel domestic measures ordered by the Competition and Markets Authority. There is a spec, but there are many problems with the governance, implementation, etc.

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#59
post #56
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSD2 and “open” banking is bullshit. I wish this myth would die - it is anything but “open”. If you want to gain access to API s , you need to become an “AISP” (as they are called in the UK), this requires a certification and a load of other nonsense akin to PCI-DSS. This is for read-only access - for “write” access including the ability to edit payees or make payments you need to become a “PISP” which I assume requi…

"...the regulation does not mandate any kind of API format.." That isn't true. Anybody which wants to be in the UK Open Banking Group (mandatory for the 9 biggest banks) must follow these very strict specs: https://openbanking.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/DZ/pages/16385...

Not true. The spec is loose, many fields are not mandatory, and the "conformance suite" only tests the security profile, not anything related to the schema. Even with that minimal level of scrutiny as of last month none of the CMA9 were compliant with the CS.

Re: The Secret API of Banks

#60
post #38

This is very clever but makes me sad. It’s 2018 and the best, cleanest way of monitoring and storing my own transactions programmatically is by scraping an email.

*in America Banks provide an API in Europe. In fact it's a legal requirement that's coming into force in 2019, and there are a lot of 'mobile-first' banks like Monzo and Revolut which make this entirely un-needed in the first place (providing spending exports, decent analytics, push notifications, etc etc). Welcome to the future. Contact your local politician if you want to join us. Maybe also ask about chip and pin…

Sure, but as other users like Rjevski have pointed out the PSD2 API is going to be nearly impossible for the common person to use. Unless you want to become pretty much PCI-DSS certified.
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