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False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

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Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#51

Post by WalterBright »

iampims wrote: post #10
ve55 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was noticed that those who were in more higher education went on to achieve more success later in life (where success is often more income, but obviously many other things too). Over time some inferred causality from this: clearly the reason why some were successful was because they had a degree or even a masters or PhD. Thus in order to encourage success, it was decided that higher education should be strongly re…

Same thing happened when someone noticed a correlation between successful kids and kids who have books at home. Someone ordered that every household should have books at home while failing to realize that correlation != causation…

It's a well-known fact that your car will go faster if it is painted red.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#52

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #42
topkai22 wrote: post #36

The real problem with higher education is really how we finance it. Give the lenders the ability to discriminate based on major and borrowers the ability to default easier and all of a sudden you’ve got some banks seriously motivated to ensure students get economic return on their investments. Besides, it just shouldn’t take a decade or more for someone to discharge a bad debt. Student debt seems uniquely oppressive…

That's how you get nothing but science and engineering majors, because most other majors don't have the ROI on average. But society is probably better off with some history and art majors too. We need to find a way to finance education that isn't based on future income.

[deleted]

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#53

Post by epicide »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39
paulie_a wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life happens and honestly I didn't give a shit about finishing up at 36 years old. The shiny degree wouldn't have made a difference in my life. And after helping in the hiring process and reading countless resumes I don't even skim the education section. I am not going to be impressed by the diploma. I will be impressed by relevant factors related to working with you. And seriously, trying to convince a college stude…

...what!? A semester was 30k USD? My entire two degrees was maybe 25k CAD. Why would anyone ever in the right mind even try to go to school if it costs that much? Surely you meant 3k. You can't possibly get a credit limit for 30... Good God I hope not... Can you?

30k USD per semester is on the high side. There are plenty of state schools that have in-state tuition that ends up being about 30k USD for all 4 years.

Not everyone is lucky enough to live in a state with a good one, however.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#54

Post by kazagistar »

topkai22 wrote: post #36

The real problem with higher education is really how we finance it. Give the lenders the ability to discriminate based on major and borrowers the ability to default easier and all of a sudden you’ve got some banks seriously motivated to ensure students get economic return on their investments. Besides, it just shouldn’t take a decade or more for someone to discharge a bad debt. Student debt seems uniquely oppressive…

Discrimination on major, quality, and completion happens through fintech refinancing already. All the good borowers get scooped away into lower rates leaving all the toxic loans on the state supported books, and it's only a matter of time til it comes crashing down.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#55

Post by Mashimo »

martin_bech wrote: post #37

I find it funny that these numbers are not available. In our free education system (Denmark), almost all of this data is freely available, also as the government, want students to make an informed choice. So most schools its easy to get graduation rate, salary estimates and even how many from the last class are employed, and how many in relevant fields.

Oh indeed. Found something here [0] from the Education and Research Ministry.

My Excel does not really like that file though.

[0] https://ufm.dk/uddannelse/statistik-og-analyser/faerdiguddan...

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#56

Post by gaius »

jedberg wrote: post #42
topkai22 wrote: post #36

The real problem with higher education is really how we finance it. Give the lenders the ability to discriminate based on major and borrowers the ability to default easier and all of a sudden you’ve got some banks seriously motivated to ensure students get economic return on their investments. Besides, it just shouldn’t take a decade or more for someone to discharge a bad debt. Student debt seems uniquely oppressive…

That's how you get nothing but science and engineering majors, because most other majors don't have the ROI on average. But society is probably better off with some history and art majors too. We need to find a way to finance education that isn't based on future income.

It’s OK for people to study the history of art, once they have already gained the STEM skills to support themselves

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#57

Post by dagw »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #4

I taught college for about a dozen years (part time on the side), and may get dragged back into again soon. I can say emphatically, the quality of the schooling only helps people who would succeed anyways. Those that won't or can't, no school can help them. There are just too many lazy, unmotivated or simple defeatist students out there. To not be too harsh, there are many students over their head in life (debts, rel…

There are just too many lazy, unmotivated or simple defeatist students out there.

That was me for a long time (I even dropped out once), until I took a course from a teacher that actually inspired me in a subject I found fascinating. Next thing you know I had a Masters degree in math.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#58

Post by sadamznintern »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #50
lsiebert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That implies that college is only important for skill transfer towards an occupation. Historically, part of college was to help an individual grow personally and intellectually, to learn not just what to think, but how to think clearly, in order to better engage with civil society as an active participant. It's always a little off-putting when I see people suggest that higher education is just for a job, and discount…

The viewpoint that college is a place for vocational education seems to be a very common viewpoint here on HN, a similar viewpoint seems to be that it's normal and easy to pack your life up and relocate so XYZ city because cost of living is low and wages are high, or some other reason. I guess being a tech-centred community this is to be expected. I don't know about others, but for me university was an important expe…

The idea that college is a place to find yourself is mostly a statement of immense privilege. I grew up upper middle class (professional parents with masters) and I didn’t spend a moment in college finding myself, I spent most of it working or networking or sleeping. My folks paid for my CS degree from a state school, but even looking at the opportunity cost I’m not sure if anybody but the already wealthy or those at elite institutions can use 4 years to do anything but try to make $180k out of college - and despite all my efforts I failed at that.

> no happier

The other side isn’t better. I make less than most of my friends and they, by virtue of independent wealth or higher income or elite status, are significantly happier than me.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#59

Post by gaius »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39
paulie_a wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life happens and honestly I didn't give a shit about finishing up at 36 years old. The shiny degree wouldn't have made a difference in my life. And after helping in the hiring process and reading countless resumes I don't even skim the education section. I am not going to be impressed by the diploma. I will be impressed by relevant factors related to working with you. And seriously, trying to convince a college stude…

...what!? A semester was 30k USD? My entire two degrees was maybe 25k CAD. Why would anyone ever in the right mind even try to go to school if it costs that much? Surely you meant 3k. You can't possibly get a credit limit for 30... Good God I hope not... Can you?

A 4-year degree at many American colleges can easily run to a quarter-mil. No I’m not kidding. That’s why it’s so incredible that people go there for anything other than employable degrees. What privilege level is a person on who can drop that kind of money just for fun? But there seem to be lots of them

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#60

Post by cm2012 »

alex_young wrote: post #31
seansmccullough wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing with home ownership.

All of the above are great screens for wealth. Interesting coincidence.

Parental income and educational achievments of children are almost perfectly correlated up until some very high wealth #.

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and...

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