MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday • Hacker News Board

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#51

Post by MusaTheRedGuard » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #20

If I am a traditional 'tech' company - I can afford to lose money when I am investing it in my platform or technology. It's like borrowing money to invest in your assets. For MoviePass, they are losing money and passing it off to theaters - it's like borrowing money to buy more ingredients for a failing restaurant. You can't charge less than the marginal cost, it doesn't make sense! I am trying to wrap my head around…

It's crazy. The data is basically worthless. I honestly don't know if they will survive for more than a few months.

I was just thinking, what could they possibly do to survive as long as possible?

They could introduce incentives to reduce the number of movies people saw a week? Maybe some kind of credit system, where customers built up points towards a premium membership.

They could also start taking the most expensive users of their platform. For whatever reason they could. Ban users sharing accounts. Introduce friction somehow. Get them to reenter their payment info.

The customer data is mostly worthless but it's scary. They could weaponize it. Announce to high use customers that they're going to sell non premium customer data. Might scare off some privacy minded customers.

Strong arm theaters somehow? Send customers to certain theaters and away from others by dangling credits toward premium or some other incentive structure

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#52

Post by stephengillie » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

tjbarkley wrote: post #44

jonknee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a critical difference, your gym doesn't lose actual money any time you visit. They may not want everyone to visit all the time, but it doesn't drain their bank account anytime you enter the door.

They lose a little money on equipment maintenance over time, but it's nothing like going to a movie.

Careless weight lifters can cause significant damage to a facility. Some users indeed can cost more than their membership. Especially if it causes the gym's landlord to raise the rates, or force an additional damage deposit, on the next lease renewal.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#53

Post by dharmab » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

smofnoopttzzaaa wrote: post #46

gamblor956 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movie theater food is expensive because theaters in the US make almost all of their profits from the food. The movies are just a vehicle to get you to buy the popcorn and soda. On big blockbuster releases, like Star Wars or Mission Impossible, the movie theater may only get 10% of the gross ticket price on opening weekend, with the remainder going to the distributor. Overseas distributors Asia have less leverage beca…

I sometimes fear that, like bookstores and Toys R' Us, if you don't patronize these businesses, they will go away. As a kid I couldn't imagine a world without bookstores, now there aren't any. Same with Toys R' Us. Kids will never have that experience again. Yes, movies are expensive, but would you rather them not be there at all?

I would rather be able to watch them in my own home and get some takeout.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#54

Post by avree » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #41

clircle wrote: post #31

My wife and I are so frustrated by the movie going experience in the US. In Taiwan, everyone is permitted to bring food and drinks to the theater and that's pretty common. In the US I'm forced to pay an absurd amount of money for awful junk food. No thanks, I want to drink tea while I watch a movie. We always have to smuggle in drinks because the theater just doesn't provide any good options. None of the movies is th…

Over the last 20 years I often have food and / or drinks in my hands when I walk in. No 16 year old ticket taker is ever going to make a fuss about it, because they certainly don't care. It is odd how deeply rooted in everyone's mind it is that there will be a huge scene if you try and sneak in food.

Most American movie theaters allow outside food/drink, so long as it doesn't give off a noticeable odor and isn't alcoholic. The myth about needing to sneak in your food is just that—a myth.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#55

Post by gorbachev » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

gorbachev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances the CEO will disclose those terms to prospective employees of his new companies? Near zero? That's a serious landmine for employees who get part of their comp as stock options. Edit: edited to reflect what I actually wanted to say (future companies instead of current company)

Absolutely but once you're in the situation where you are securing high risk debt financing you're employees should already reset the future value of their stock to $0. While I don't know if it is a hard and fast rule, it has been true in my experience over the last 30 years in the bay area that when a company is doing this sort of move to survive it has never left any value in the common stock.

I actually meant the employees of future companies of that CEO. Poorly drafted comment on my part.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#56

Post by Thespian2 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

jld wrote: post #35

sspencer wrote: post #12

I would love to see the terms for that emergency 5 million in cash. Probably eye-watering interest rates.

Via Bloomberg... "Terms of the loan are onerous. Investment firm Hudson Bay Capital Management can demand repayment of more than $3 million of the loan on Aug. 1, and the rest on Aug. 5. Proceeds from a planned stock sale must also be used to repay the debt. If Helios and Matheson Analytics fails to pay, it will be subject to a 15 percent annualized late fee until it makes good on the obligation. If the company is 48…

Oof!

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#57

Post by fullshark » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #20

If I am a traditional 'tech' company - I can afford to lose money when I am investing it in my platform or technology. It's like borrowing money to invest in your assets. For MoviePass, they are losing money and passing it off to theaters - it's like borrowing money to buy more ingredients for a failing restaurant. You can't charge less than the marginal cost, it doesn't make sense! I am trying to wrap my head around…

They are trying to buy customers at a loss, then get so big that they can shake down theaters + their own customers for more money. It didn't work.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#58

Post by JazCE » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

In the UK, 2 of the biggest chains offer subscription passes... Cineworld, which is the one I use, allows me to see any movie at any cineworld (there's a 2 tier system for London, but ignore that for now) at any time for free based on me paying £17 a month. I live in London and the average cost of a ticket is roughly £12, if i see 2 movies a month i'm quids in. It seems insane that moviepass isn't operated already by one of your big chains (AMC? i guess). There's normally at least 2 movies I want to see a month, and even if there's not if i have nothing better to do i'd likely go and see something.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#59

Post by neverfones » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

tjbarkley wrote: post #11

mdrzn wrote: post #2

A couple months ago there were optimist articles about how they'll "make it in the long run", having "enough money to keep going before being profitable". Cinemark even announced something similar. Guess it didn't last THAT long. I'm scared for other services with the same pricing scheme.

I believe AMC is doing a subscription service where you can see up to 3 movies a week for $20/month.

They also have a service where you can watch any movie on Tuesdays for $5, for $12 a year. I prefer that service, and have renewed for 3 years.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#60

Post by itbeho » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

avree wrote: post #54

izzydata wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last 20 years I often have food and / or drinks in my hands when I walk in. No 16 year old ticket taker is ever going to make a fuss about it, because they certainly don't care. It is odd how deeply rooted in everyone's mind it is that there will be a huge scene if you try and sneak in food.

Most American movie theaters allow outside food/drink, so long as it doesn't give off a noticeable odor and isn't alcoholic. The myth about needing to sneak in your food is just that—a myth.

I wouldn't say it's a myth. It's been a while but I recall being in a theater (San Luis Obispo, CA) and witnessing a manager ask a person to throw away his smuggled snacks or leave the theater. He declined to do both and the police arrived and escorted him out.