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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#51

Post by Fricken »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

All of the local libraries near me have a 3D printer. One library close by offers a coworkers space I can borrow a Roku and aLaptop. . Libraries don't need distruption they are already doing it themselves.

My local libraries are converting into makerspaces. They have green screens, sound studios, mac pros with Adobe creative suite software, 3D printers, Lego mindstorms, and a bunch of other stuff. Knowledge that can be printed is now abundant, but vernacular knowledge remains scarce, and the libraries in my city are becoming a storehouse for that knowledge. It's pretty cool.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#52

Post by JTbane »

ryandrake wrote: post #34
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

If libraries were invented today, that would be immediately killed by the copyright and retail lobbies.

It's funny to imagine publishers making the case against them- "You're gonna just let people borrow books for free!? How will I turn a profit?"

It's also kind of sad that this logic is so prevalent with regards to software, films, music, etc.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#53

Post by NeedMoreTea »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Free so long as you can afford the net and are happy to abandon your privacy then call it "free". If you're one of the 8% in the US without a bank, or 11% without internet, what now?

Libraries also gave net access for those without.

They probably wouldn't be invented as they are, but given those groups without access I would want them to be.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#54

Post by rayiner »

ashelmire wrote: post #30
rayiner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a librarian going to give me sound statistical research, or regurgitate shibboleths about the importance of education?

There's something ironic about a lawyer and university employee decrying education. Perhaps we should hit you over the head a few times until you forget everything you've ever learned and see how well the rest of your life turns out?

Nothing ironic about it. Lawyers in the U.S. typically need seven years of education (a four-year college degree, and a three-year JD). In the U.K., they manage with a 3 to 4-year LLB. In the U.S., everyone is required to go to high-school through grade 12. In Germany, 40% of people finish at grade 10. Both the U.K. and Germany manage to have world class economies with substantially less education than the U.S. The U.S. is over educationalized, and part of the reason is that people are inundated with pablum like "education is almost invaluable."

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#55

Post by robrenaud »

nxc18 wrote: post #33
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

As they exist today: free access to computers and internet. Information is only literally free and instant if you have access to the internet, which isn't gauranteed especially for low income people.

For a librarian's salary, one could subsidize lots of internet for low income people.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#56

Post by maxxxxx »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

At least in LA books are only a small part of what the libraries do. They offer free internet, law workshops, language classes, access to 3D printers and a lot more.

They are really community centers and in my view well worth it.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#57

Post by rb808 »

chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> try going to one

This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#58

Post by kayfox »

rayiner wrote: post #10
chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> because education and information are almost invaluable Citation needed.

http://libraries.pewinternet.org/2013/12/11/libraries-in-com...

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#59

Post by romaniv »

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#60

Post by Jun8 »

"Yo, que me figuraba el Paraíso / Bajo la especie de una biblioteca. (I have always imagined Paradise as a kind of library)." - Borges

Libraries, as physical places, have a sanctity about them and every discussion on "replacing libraries" have to take this into account, I think. It's the place where many people had their first ad hoc meeting with great writers there and had their real education, a notable example is Bukowski: "John Fante’s minor classic “Ask the Dust”; the book, which Bukowski accidentally discovered in the stacks of the Los Angeles Central Library, made a huge impression on him" (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/03/14/smashed).

This, the random browsing among physical books, is the most important aspect of a library for me, I usually spend 90% of my time in libraries doing precisely that.

After I had my son I also came to appreciate the children's area and the activities there in our local library (e.g. write a letter to our hamster"). The PC help function mentioned in the article also seems to important and popular.

As for being a sanctuary for homeless people or those struggling with addiction: My anecdotal experience has been that such patrons are a usually disruptive (and sometimes frightening) influence in most city libraries. They usually use the space to sleep (snoring is forbidden though!) and for other activities.

It's hard to come up with a better solution, though.

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