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How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

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Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#51

Post by deanclatworthy »

outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

I contacted them at launch to ask about the price. They didn’t even mention publicly that it was an introductory offer at the time. They replied to me prices will go up eventually so I’m expecting it any day now.

HSL are also working on a monthly API I believe so I suspect the hassle of having to buy a ticket each time through Whim will soon disappear.

The car rental is not particularly cheap. Have you had any experience with that yet?

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#53

Post by deanclatworthy »

outime wrote: post #30
jpatokal wrote: post #24

As a former Helsinkian, I'm rather surprised to see the label "future of urban travel" applied to a city that has banned all forms of Uber-style ride-sharing due to pressure from the taxi lobby.

I believe they banned it because they ignored the local laws (and Helsinki isn’t exactly an isolated case of this behaviour from Uber) and were unlicensed. However they’ve recently regained presence in Helsinki since it’s been legalized [1]. [1] https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/anyone_can_be_a_cabbie__n...

Uber black has returned which is basically taxis with the uber UI. I left on vacation just before the regulations changed. What are the prices for Uber compared to before with the private cars and drivers?

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#54

Post by deanclatworthy »

Sharlin wrote: post #33
yurishimo wrote: post #28

The 499 euro price tag for the "all access" seems quite expensive from an American point of view. I can get a decent car with good gas mileage for about half that and outright buying a used car will save me a lot more in less than a year. Most people who would be tempted to go without owning a car in the US don't do much driving anyway, so they don't spend a lot on gas as is. While I think this could work in NYC, Sea…

Trust me, 499e per month is really steep from Finnish perspective too. Not really sure what's the target customer demographic here. Maybe companies, as an alternative to leasing a car.

You can get a very good lease for 500e in Finland (I have many friends who do this)

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#55

Post by ankit219 »

I can imagine this to work in a city like Mumbai - with one of the cities with high population densities.

Context wise: Traffic in Mumbai is really bad at peak times, and has got worse given the advent of ride hailing services. A lot of people already use the public transport - the network of local trains and metros to get from Place A to Place B. However, after you get down from a station/stop, you rely on taxis, autos, buses, or ride hailing apps to get to final destination which could be 4-5 miles away. and those options are not always available. This is one of the reasons that some folks take their own vehicles even to far off places despite them taking way too much time.

Where I can see this work is: Getting a ride share/bike/(even a scooter) to get to the final place, instead of hailing a cab or an auto. Also, if more people are using it, this would reduce the load on the roads, meaning people might be able to use buses more. (right now, most of us avoid buses due to the traffic situation here)

We already have really cheap passes for public transport. And the frequency is already sufficiently high. If the last mile hailing can work, that could reduce a lot of load, and people will pay for that.

Not too sure about the other cities.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#56

Post by brylie »

dharma1 wrote: post #37

I'm gonna be in Helsinki for a month from next week. Can I buy the €499 monthly deal and get a car for a month?

Disclosure: I work at MaaS Global.

While you could use the Whim app and a Total Freedom subscription to get 30 days of private care usage, we encourage people to use multiple modes of transport that are best suited for varying needs.

Mobility as a Service is based on the idea of multi-modality and the premise that private car ownership shouldn't be a requirement for freedom and spontaneity. We are learning, in many cities worldwide, that private car ownership is leading towards a congested and wasteful (in terms of space and material resources) urban center.

As the MaaS concept and ecosystem are much bigger than one company, I recommend checking out how other people, journalists, researchers, companies, cities, and regions are exploring the concept :-)

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#57

Post by alistairSH »

ghaff wrote: post #49
alistairSH wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've considered it. But, the transaction overhead isn't small. I'd need to reserve the car in advance, Lyft to the rental agency, etc. Currently, I can decide to go to the mountains on a whim Friday afternoon.

That makes perfect sense. It also highlights some of the reasons why, a lot of the time, people own items that they don't use frequently. e.g. you may only use a lawnmower 15 times a year but most people aren't going to rent one each time.

Absolutely.

But, the cost of a car/truck is massive relative to most people's overall budgets. So, there's probably lots of room for optimization through transit-as-a-service.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#58

Post by ghaff »

alistairSH wrote: post #43
nmeofthestate wrote: post #23

"The cost of cars accounts for as much as 85 percent of personal transportation spending, according to Hietanen, even though the average car is used only 4 percent of the time." This figure is a bit silly - you don't drive your car while you're sleeping, or indeed when you're already where you want to be. Doesn't mean it's not a useful thing to own.

4% of 24 hours is about 58 minutes. So, 6% of the 16 hours/day you're awake. 9% of the 11 hours/day you aren't sleeping or working. Sure, owning a car is useful. But, private car ownership is highly inefficient.

The vast, vast bulk of things that people own they use a small percentage of the time. To be sure, cars are expensive, their storage may be expensive in some locations, and at least some people are fine with just renting a generic car. But just observing that something isn't in use a high percentage of the time doesn't really tell you anything about whether it makes sense to own vs. short-term rent.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#59

Post by ghaff »

alistairSH wrote: post #57
ghaff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes perfect sense. It also highlights some of the reasons why, a lot of the time, people own items that they don't use frequently. e.g. you may only use a lawnmower 15 times a year but most people aren't going to rent one each time.

Absolutely. But, the cost of a car/truck is massive relative to most people's overall budgets. So, there's probably lots of room for optimization through transit-as-a-service.

Sure. The cost of a car and, potentially, the cost of garaging a car in a city definitely merit a harder look at alternatives than other items may. There are definitely city-dwellers who don't drive a lot and, with increased transportation options in a lot of cities, the marginal car-owner increasingly has other options they can consider.

I know a couple in SF who don't own a car that probably wouldn't have been able to do so prior to Uber/Lyft, Zipcar, food delivery, etc. Of course, they also don't really do outdoor trips requiring a lot of gear on a regular basis and their kids are grown up and moved out as well.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#60

Post by jampekka »

nikanj wrote: post #50
jampekka wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are probably running at big loss. As per the contract, resellers have to pay the retail price 2.20€ per ticket. So they start running at a loss after around 22 tickets per month. And that's just for the public transportation. The 55€/month is only for Helsinki area residents and subsidized from municipal taxes. Without the subsidy it's over 130€/month.

It’s interesting how many areas of life are moving from tax-subsidized to VC subsidized. Not complaining, I’m happy to take their money.

It may well turn out to be taxpayer subsidized too, but with additional financial crisis and bailout steps.
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