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Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

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Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#51
post #30
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

Honestly, a big part of it is the lack of ethics training that engineers receive. Far too many engineers have a, "The problem is fun/interesting, that's all the further I'm going to think about it. The implications of what I'm working on are not my department." We need to start thinking more about what we're building, how it's going to affect the world, and how it can be misused.

It’s great to have ethics and refuse unethical projects, but reality is that there is a line of people outside of your employer’s door. They just have to find one person willing to set ethics aside.

I remember refusing a stinky project. It was pointless. I didn’t get fired or anything—-manager just assigned it to the guy in the next cubicle over.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#52
post #30
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

Honestly, a big part of it is the lack of ethics training that engineers receive. Far too many engineers have a, "The problem is fun/interesting, that's all the further I'm going to think about it. The implications of what I'm working on are not my department." We need to start thinking more about what we're building, how it's going to affect the world, and how it can be misused.

There are more recent resources, but see for example from 1993: "The Ethical Engineer: An "Ethics Construction Kit" Places Engineering in a New Light" by Eugene Schlossberger https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17137987-the-ethical-eng... "On occasion, professionals need to use moral reasoning as well as engineering skills to function effectively in their occupation. Eugene Schlossberger has created a practical guide to ethical decision-making for engineers, students, and workers in business and industry. The Ethical Engineer sets out the tools and materials essential to dealing with whistle-blowing, environmental and safety concerns, bidding, confidentiality, conflict of interest, sales ethics, advertising, employer-employee relations, when to fight a battle, and when to break the rules. The author offers recommendations and techniques as well as rules, principles, and values that can guide the reader. Lively examples, engaging anecdotes, witty comments, and well-reasoned analysis prove his conviction that ""ethics is good business."

Langdon Winner is another person who writes on this topic at a more abstract societal level, like in his "Autonomous technology: technics-out-of-control as a theme in political thought". https://www.langdonwinner.com/

And see also "Disciplined Minds" by Jeff Schmidt: http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ "Who are you going to be? That is the question. In this riveting book about the world of professional work, Jeff Schmidt demonstrates that the workplace is a battleground for the very identity of the individual, as is graduate school, where professionals are trained. He shows that professional work is inherently political, and that professionals are hired to subordinate their own vision and maintain strict "ideological discipline." The hidden root of much career dissatisfaction, argues Schmidt, is the professional's lack of control over the political component of his or her creative work. Many professionals set out to make a contribution to society and add meaning to their lives. Yet our system of professional education and employment abusively inculcates an acceptance of politically subordinate roles in which professionals typically do not make a significant difference, undermining the creative potential of individuals, organizations and even democracy. Schmidt details the battle one must fight to be an independent thinker and to pursue one's own social vision in today's corporate society. He shows how an honest reassessment of what it really means to be a professional employee can be remarkably liberating. After reading this brutally frank book, no one who works for a living will ever think the same way about his or her job."

But there are no end of others. But living up to your ideals is often easier said then done in so many areas of life... It helps to have a group of people with common ideals to support each other.

But for example, when I was in CivilEngineering&OR graduate school in Princeton in the late 1980s, I was essentially told by the then director of graduate studies that taking a public policy course from Frank von Hippel ( https://www.princeton.edu/sgs/faculty-staff/frank-von-hippel... ) that included topics like ethics and engineering policy especially about energy policy and weapons proliferation would hurt my career there and was strongly discouraged from taking it. I took it anyway. :-) But that was all no doubt part of why I ended up leaving after a year. The majority of other engineering students even then were from other countries and funded by their governments or companies and had less choice in how compliant they had to be.

That was perhaps a reason Princeton lost a chance at maybe being the first to develop the web (although I made many mistakes myself along the way too): https://pdfernhout.net/princeton-graduate-school-plans.html "This was my proposal for graduate studies at Princeton University twenty [now thirty] years ago (and in some ways includes a proposal for creating a mini-Google and a mini-World-Wide-Web. :-)."

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microphones and cameras don't just pick up "what you want". A key press is more than appropriate to gather the desired "this isn't on sale" metric. This device is also not intended for that use case. It's meant to generate metrics to "ensure employees are actually greeting." If you are SO FLUSH WITH CASH and in such a dearth of things to do with it that you are quite literally trying to optimize your greeter metrics,…

Agreed. This is insane at every level. Let's play this out - imagine they implement this. They spend millions (realistically tens/hundreds of millions) putting up sensor systems, spinning up data center capacity, hiring analysts and all the auxiliary work that goes along with this sort of program, all for what - to further dehumanize some poor middle age single mother who's making $9 an hour? And for what -to optimiz…

It's like a game of chicken. Those in control of society make things worse and the people at the bottom either suck it up or upend the table in response to this new social contract.

People naturally want a stable peaceful life and will suck it up.

But one day this bluff will be called.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#54
post #2

won't it infrige on amazon's surveillance of clients for their workerless shop full of microphones and cameras?

Is this a reference to something specific?

yes, amazonGO. a shop where you enter, systems detect you via your phone or wireless card, you pick up what you want and leave. items show up on your credit card.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#55

I have always been super supportive of automation and I think it is a net-positive. But today I had a weird experience. You know those automated ordering things at fast food places, I used one for the first time today. It was exciting and fun at first (don't judge me), but then I looked up and realized no one was at the register and no one was speaking. The workers were simply packing bags and pressing buttons. It wa…

As someone with mild social anxiety, I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

I hate having to talk with a stranger just in order not to starve to death.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#56
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, a big part of it is the lack of ethics training that engineers receive. Far too many engineers have a, "The problem is fun/interesting, that's all the further I'm going to think about it. The implications of what I'm working on are not my department." We need to start thinking more about what we're building, how it's going to affect the world, and how it can be misused.

There are more recent resources, but see for example from 1993: "The Ethical Engineer: An "Ethics Construction Kit" Places Engineering in a New Light" by Eugene Schlossberger https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17137987-the-ethical-eng... "On occasion, professionals need to use moral reasoning as well as engineering skills to function effectively in their occupation. Eugene Schlossberger has created a practical guide…

This is great stuff. Thank you.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#57
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

I take it you've never worked in a call center? Everything is randomly recorded and workers are micromanaged down to the minute. You came in a minute late. You came in a minute early. You didn't take lunch when we told you to. Your calls run too long. Your calls are too short. That on top of the UBA tools being deployed against workers to track how much time they spend working vs tweeting, WPM typed, etc. This has be…

How is this "not being new" relevant at all? People posting inane "corrections" anytime someone makes a comment worth a fuck isn't new either. Doesn't mean I accept it.

Also, it's not a game.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#58
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

I take it you've never worked in a call center? Everything is randomly recorded and workers are micromanaged down to the minute. You came in a minute late. You came in a minute early. You didn't take lunch when we told you to. Your calls run too long. Your calls are too short. That on top of the UBA tools being deployed against workers to track how much time they spend working vs tweeting, WPM typed, etc. This has be…

The recordings stopped being random a long time ago. I work for a major insurance company and literally every second I am logged in, they record what I say and do. This company has had an issue with fraud being committed by employees so I understand their scrutiny but it still is unnerving to think about.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#59
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

Lol the unions are essentially organized crime syndicates and political machines. They couldn't give two fucks about this kind of thing, and the ACLU is in sjw mode. Good luck.

Re: Walmart patents surveillance tool that can eavesdrop on workers

#60
post #16

...How much further are we going to let this sort of thing evolve? This is classic Industrialist overreach. Taft-Hartley be damned. Enough is enough. Corporate America needs a wake-up call, and I think the unions may need to brush off the dust and get back in the game. It's one thing to play with hypotheticals, but Corporations are starting to leverage capital advantaged positions in order to dictate what values the…

Lol the unions are essentially organized crime syndicates and political machines. They couldn't give two fucks about this kind of thing, and the ACLU is in sjw mode. Good luck.

Depends on your viewpoint. An effective Union in principle post Taft-Hartley is essentially an organized crime organization, seeing as the most effective method of forcing Big Industry to the negotiating table, secondary strikes, were made illegal to organize as a formal Union.

Without the amplifying power of network effects to offset Industy's increased cash reserves to simply wait out the miniscule by comparison reserves of a legal Union, there really is no serious incentive to get Industry actors to really pay attention. Thus is the danger of legislation without sunset dates.

Can't comment on ACLU. Haven't kept up with them nowadays.

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