People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard • Hacker News Board

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#51

Post by mhb » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #46

barrkel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many of our problems are collective action problems: where it makes sense for individuals to defect on their own, and they can only raise the standard for the group if they act together. At different scales this means unionization and professional organizations, government regulation, and international regulation, to prevent whole countries from defecting - this is in large part what the EU is about, and a signif…

It also means laws/regulations to just plain ban harmful behaviors. Collectivization to alter market forces cannot fix everything. Some things need to just stop. Selling CFCs needs to stop. That won't happen by naming and shaming involved companies. It won't happen by people gathering on facebook to organize a boycott. It happens by people in uniforms enforcing the law, with violence when necessary. Sometimes that is…

Well it takes collective action to decide what to ban.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#52

Post by PurpleBoxDragon » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #22

nkrisc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to remind people that it's not "you versus AT&T" it's "you versus a quarter million experts in their respective domains." I would expect any average individual to lose against AT&T in whatever their issue is unless AT&T willingly concedes to them. Picking on AT&T for no particular reason.

That's an intersting point. Perhaps things would be more level if a conflict between an individual would be settled by selecting one RANDOM employee from that company (not the super ninja expert in the narrow field at hand), and have them battle it out in a lower court / arbitration.

No, just do like you do with children who sign contracts, invalidate any obligations the child has to the adult, but the adult is still bound to any obligations they have, and punish the adult for trying to take advantage of the child.

Ideally, the ability for individuals to sign contracts with corporations should be forbidden. Maybe a single 1 person corporation that doesn't involve a lawyer either direct or as a contractor.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#53

Post by salawat » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

pjmorris wrote: post #24

nkrisc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to remind people that it's not "you versus AT&T" it's "you versus a quarter million experts in their respective domains." I would expect any average individual to lose against AT&T in whatever their issue is unless AT&T willingly concedes to them. Picking on AT&T for no particular reason.

I once spent nine months in what seemed like a losing battle with AT&T for them to correctly account for two checks I wrote that they credited to my old phone number rather than my new phone number. I had to write a letter to my state's Public Service Commission before I could get the attention of AT&T's executive office and get their collections department off of my back.

This is why corporations need to remain small.

The inefficiencies are what make the system A)navigable, and B) work.

When you have humans trying to run something that no human can fully mentally represent without significant investment in external memory aids, you have a recipe for disaster, because one bad move by a large actor propagates far better than the same move by a smaller actor.

Real life analogy: Your kid trips.Hyperbolic analogy: Jack trips Giant trips

Which has worse consequences?

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#54

Post by paidleaf » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

qaq wrote: post #21

stephengillie wrote: post #3

Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid. - John Wayne

I actually often see the opposite less intelligent people are often carefree and more happy.

Ignorance is bliss.

Quotes are like bible passages. There is one for every occasion and every perspective. Given one quote, you can find an equally poignant and contradictory quote.

Time and tide wait for no man!

Slow and steady wins the race!

This is why I cringe when I see people leading their lives based on quotes.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#55

Post by yosito » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #41

ppeetteerr wrote: post #34

This is probably the greatest argument for big government. If we were to eliminate the supervision of the establishment over the safety and security of everyday life, it would be very time consuming to handle every single aspect of it. There is always the issue of an overreaching government, and that's where the left/right party split comes in. Each party either creates more regulation and protection or take some awa…

I seem to recall running into a claim that the original idea of the republicans was that the government would be a check against coercion, be it physical, emotional, economic, or otherwise.

Seems the current Republican establishment is the exact opposite of that ideal.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#56

Post by gascan » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #43

aalleavitch wrote: post #2

We’re dumb in comparison to the systems we’ve created. Increasingly, the disparity between what our technology is capable of and our own limitations as animals will become a pressing issue. One thing that always bothers me is how we have this myth of personal responsibility that supposes an individual is equipped to defend their own interests against a multinational corporation on their own. “Well I just don’t get wh…

And many of our problems are collective action problems: where it makes sense for individuals to defect on their own, and they can only raise the standard for the group if they act together. At different scales this means unionization and professional organizations, government regulation, and international regulation, to prevent whole countries from defecting - this is in large part what the EU is about, and a signif…

As I see it, the corruption challenge of collective action is because it is so often not carefully, purposefully structured. Government is constructed with the express purpose of checking power.

I read a bit I liked a while back about early feminism, in which members rejected wholesale the idea of power structures & authority, and established no authority. The author relates, however, that the power vacuum was naturally still filled- but because everyone wanted to pretend there was no power structure, the one that developed was unusually cruel & unaccountable.

I liked the bit because to me it seems like the strongest argument for official government- if the power vacuum must always be filled, let us be deliberate in how we fill it.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#57

Post by haskellandchill » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

kumartanmay wrote: post #44

If behavioural economists are so good at predicting human behaviour, why aren’t they popular among consumer facing companies? Why don’t such companies have a special position for behaviourial evonomists? Why none of the behaviourial Economists have ever tried starting up?

Some companies do. AirBnB had an economist at one point I recall.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#58

Post by myth_buster » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

kumartanmay wrote: post #44

If behavioural economists are so good at predicting human behaviour, why aren’t they popular among consumer facing companies? Why don’t such companies have a special position for behaviourial evonomists? Why none of the behaviourial Economists have ever tried starting up?

Your assumption _why aren’t they popular among consumer facing companies_ is incorrect. Almost all UX and product development takes into consideration. Ex: gamification, pricing, freemium model etc.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#59

Post by walterstucco » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

aalleavitch wrote: post #2

We’re dumb in comparison to the systems we’ve created. Increasingly, the disparity between what our technology is capable of and our own limitations as animals will become a pressing issue. One thing that always bothers me is how we have this myth of personal responsibility that supposes an individual is equipped to defend their own interests against a multinational corporation on their own. “Well I just don’t get wh…

Are you sure that is the disparity between what our technology is capable of and our own limitations as animals and not our perception of it?

My grandparents lived most of their life under the menace of a nuclear holocaust, but when they were born the electric power system was still in infancy and they had no electricity whatsoever in their house.

Going back centuries, the Ishtar Gate was built so that people arriving to Babilonia would be scared

I think that we are more scared by what we don't know that by what we can't manage

The world IS hard, but we're also very dumb

We know smoking gives cancer, but we still smoke anyway.

We know cars pollute the environment, but we ride them anyway.

etc. etc. etc.

Re: People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard

#60

Post by jcutrell » Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

kumartanmay wrote: post #44

If behavioural economists are so good at predicting human behaviour, why aren’t they popular among consumer facing companies? Why don’t such companies have a special position for behaviourial evonomists? Why none of the behaviourial Economists have ever tried starting up?

To be honest, this is kind of my hope for a future job.

I've wanted to practice behavior economics meets technological innovation for a long time now - but you're right, there doesn't seem to be a demand for this.