Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 154 posts

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#51

Post by tzahola »

xapata wrote: post #11
dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

I heard an article on the radio measuring the proteins in trees. Apparently much of it in the Pacific Northwest forests comes from salmon carcasses that bears fetch from the stream and discard. I have no idea how they'd determine the source. Maybe I was paying attention to the road when they explained. So if the fish disappear, maybe the forest does, too.

Ummm, trees incorporating protein from animals? I'm not sure that's how it works...

Nitrogen at best, but not protein...

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#53

Post by jaggederest »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #43
jaggederest wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family has lived on the same land in a very rural area for 38 years, so that is not really applicable. I would doubt there are enough mosquito traps in the county to make a difference.

Droughts, less open water available, more activity in said waters? That could account for some mosquito reduction. But in other comment you mention other insects, so this indeed seems like a broader problem.

I don't know what it is, but it's absolutely disturbing. Insects are, by comparison with us mammals, incredibly resilient. Anything that is reducing insect populations on a massive scale is bad news for the entire world.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#54

Post by skrebbel »

ckastner wrote: post #45
jaggederest wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current point of concern is that I can go out and sit all evening without a mosquito bite. That was unheard of even 30 years ago when I was a kid. You'd be lucky if you didn't have one for every minute you spent outside. I think the insects are dying, and it's frightening. Second item would be watching the bison migrate on the plains. Literally horizon to horizon, a hundred thousand individuals or more in a group.…

I never understood why such changes -- dramatic as they may be -- were seen as a cause of concern, except in cases where the changes affected our food supply. Humans may be responsible for the decimation or outright extinction of entire species, but isn't that how Nature works? Nature has encountered countless extinctions before us (where's the Megalodon now?) and at least 5 mass extinctions, so why should this dynam…

I know very little about ecology, but my understanding is that lots of insects, including but not only bees, are key to plant reproduction. Maybe my math is wrong, but fewer insects probably implies fewer plants, with a delay. Given that I'd like to survive and all, I'd like there to be plants so I can eat them. And breathe air and whatnot.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#55

Post by singularity2001 »

jaggederest wrote: post #14
mncharity wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that change blindness, I wonder if an interesting component of teaching history could be to emphasize 'things you would find jaw-droppingly different if you were dropped back in time'? Precise arrangements for where/when to meet ("at 10:10, on the corner of mumble and mumble") - because no cell phones. Boston Python, having an unusually large turnout... so someone needed to pull up an extra chair to the confere…

My current point of concern is that I can go out and sit all evening without a mosquito bite. That was unheard of even 30 years ago when I was a kid. You'd be lucky if you didn't have one for every minute you spent outside. I think the insects are dying, and it's frightening. Second item would be watching the bison migrate on the plains. Literally horizon to horizon, a hundred thousand individuals or more in a group.…

IMO The lack of mosquitos is the single positive aspect of a crippled nature. Allegedly a Pharao had a slave covered in honey to get some peace from those beasts. New Zealand is paradise except that on some beaches you just can't stop unless you want to get drained.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#56

Post by jaggederest »

ckastner wrote: post #45
jaggederest wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current point of concern is that I can go out and sit all evening without a mosquito bite. That was unheard of even 30 years ago when I was a kid. You'd be lucky if you didn't have one for every minute you spent outside. I think the insects are dying, and it's frightening. Second item would be watching the bison migrate on the plains. Literally horizon to horizon, a hundred thousand individuals or more in a group.…

I never understood why such changes -- dramatic as they may be -- were seen as a cause of concern, except in cases where the changes affected our food supply. Humans may be responsible for the decimation or outright extinction of entire species, but isn't that how Nature works? Nature has encountered countless extinctions before us (where's the Megalodon now?) and at least 5 mass extinctions, so why should this dynam…

Conservationism is about conserving a place in the world where humans can survive, full stop. It's not just food, it's disease, it's mycology, it's everything, and if we're not careful, we will render the planet uninhabitable for naked apes.

You're right, in the sense that of course the tardigrades, archaea around deep ocean vents, and blue-green algae will continue trucking along more or less whatever happens. We, however, are not tardigrades.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#57

Post by singularity2001 »

imjk wrote: post #7
dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

While that’s a very enlightening fact. I’m not sure how I would feel about jumping in a river and just getting swarmed by schools of fish or swimming in an ocean teeming with lobster. Still I agree that modern industrial fishing is having grave impacts on our environment and ecosystems.

Most animals are programmed to evade annoying swimmers.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#58

Post by ponzored »

GreeniFi wrote: post #39

Fish catch in East Africa is down 75% in 30 years. That’s huge - given increased population, hunting effort and “fishing down the food chain”, as species previously not eaten are now fished. There will undoubtedly be substitution - but we barely understand the 2nd order effects, let alone 3rd , 4rth and 5th.

Somalia population 1987: 6.1 million.

2017 population: 11.4 million.

Just one country, but that might have something to do with it.

2100: 58 million. I can only imagine the environmental destruction that will go along with that.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/somalia/2017/

Meanwhile, what do countries like Somalia produce to enrich our civilization? The country has zero scientific output:

https://www.natureindex.com/country-outputs/generate/All/glo...

And foreign aid makes up 23% of their GDP.

In business it is common to dispense with non-performing assets. Can entire countries and peoples be non-performing? This might sound harsh, but in the era of resource depletion and global warming, mother nature herself is going to be harsh.

I think our aid should be wholly in the form of contraception, not food. A ballooning African population is good for nobody.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#59

Post by raverbashing »

aaron695 wrote: post #16
dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

> E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0] I call total BS. Taking edible food, carting it and then plowing it into fields for edible food in 6 months time. Sounds like fantasy. Fish Fertilizer: A Native North American Practice? http://science.sciencemag.org/content/188/4183/26 DOI: 10.1126/science.188.4183.26

Lobsters weren't always "edible", not sure how it was viewed in Native American culture

But if they're more than what you can eat and if using them as fertilizer works, why not

Post reply on HN