Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say • Hacker News Board

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#51

Post by hypertexthero » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

anoplus wrote: post #18

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I…

> Now if we examine our life, our relationship with another, we shall see that it is a process of isolation. We are really not concerned with another; though we talk a great deal about it, actually we are not concerned. We are related to someone only so long as that relationship gratifies us, so long as it gives us a refuge, so long as it satisfies us. But the moment there is a disturbance in the relationship which produces discomfort in ourselves, we discard that relationship. In other words, there is relationship only so long as we are gratified. This may sound harsh, but if you really examine your life very closely you will see it is a fact; and to avoid a fact is to live in ignorance, which can never produce right relationship. If we look into our lives and observe relationship, we see it is a process of building resistance against another, a wall over which we look and observe the other; but we always retain the wall and remain behind it, whether it be a psychological wall, a material wall, an economic wall or a national wall. So long as we live in isolation, behind a wall, there is no relationship with another; and we live enclosed because it is much more gratifying, we think it is much more secure. The world is so disruptive, there is so much sorrow, so much pain, war, destruction, misery, that we want to escape and live within the walls of security of our own psychological being. So, relationship with most of us is actually a process of isolation, and obviously such relationship builds a society which is also isolating. That is exactly what is happening throughout the world: you remain in your isolation and stretch your hand over the wall, calling it nationalism, brotherhood or what you will, but actually sovereign governments, armies, continue. Still clinging to your own limitations, you think you can create world unity, world peace - which is impossible. So long as you have a frontier, whether national, economic, religious or social, it is an obvious fact that there cannot be peace in the world.

— From The First and Last Freedom by J. Krishnamurti, Chapter 14: Relationship And Isolation

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#52

Post by wonderbear » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

anoplus wrote: post #18

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I…

> Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined. What is the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot outside of work.

I felt this way for a very long time. Never had many friends growing up for much this reason; it didn't feel rewarding to spend time with anyone except my stepdad (my mentor, because I was always learning with him and he was one of the only people that made me feel safe) and my sports comrades (but only when we were practicing).

In adulthood, though, there's several people I enjoy so much that it seems worth it to spend a fair bit of effort just to be in their presence for some time. We don't even have to do anything particularly interesting. I don't understand why I want to be around them so much, but I do, and I wonder if this is the connection I've been missing the whole time.

The other weekend I took a six hour flight just to go on a hike with some of these people (there's plenty of hiking where I was already) because I missed them so much being away for work. It's like being hungry. Being around them is a dopamine hit.

For a while I only felt this way about a tiny handful of people I met in grad school so it seemed like the same sort of thing where you spend a lot of time and effort at a hobby and then find that you are passionate about it. Spend a lot of time (and college type bonding experiences) with some people and you'll find you're passionate about your friendship. But then in my early thirties I met a couple new friends and the same feeling happened within days of meeting them, so I don't understand the dynamic at all. What makes someone fall in love with their friends?

Apologies for going off on a tangent here. It was a thought provoking comment.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#53

Post by wonderbear » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

mengledowl wrote: post #6

For those that are interested in this concept, Cal Newport wrote a fantastic book about this concept of developing a passion rather than "finding" it in his book "So Good They Can't Ignore You". Very highly recommend.

That is an excellent book, and expounds on the ideas in this article.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#54

Post by anoplus » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #33

anoplus wrote: post #18

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I…

I love this perspective on passions and finding joy in the practical. As a former smoker, I used to get a nicotine rush while having conversations in person or over the phone (while smoking). Once that went away, 5+ years ago, I found that I enjoyed conversation less and really needed to make an effort to initiate and continue it. That hasn't gone away, so I'm hoping to get some other good perspectives on the later h…

Elaborating here with following thoughts. The approach I try to apply for "socializing" which I really unsure about - and perhaps that unsureness is exactly the point - is be a little like some machine learning algorithm. When "training set" is scarce and confidence is absolute zero, it still makes a "guess" to train. Another metaphore is playing an insturment. When you play an insturment you don't want to stop and think. Perhaps "socializing" has a unique and varying tempo to it, something between "skimming quickly over a quicksand" and "manueuvering carefully in a minefield". The only key I have to operate is to think that if I make an unwanted impression I can always make up with another impression.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#55

Post by sidr » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #34

nishantvyas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, "Find and follow your passion" social expectation from very early in life. In reality, 1) "finding passion" early is hard; Before one turns 12, brain is not fully develop to logically understand the true likes then from 13-19 it goes thru a huge amount of hormonal, emotional and physical changes... what's left is an average 19 year old teen with I'm "not sure my major" in college, let alone the passion...…

Funny, I feel like before 12 is when our brains are free of social constraints and are most free to determine what is enjoyable or not. 5 year olds certainly know what they like.

And they're virtually guaranteed to grow out of liking those things by next month.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#56

Post by swaggyBoatswain » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

I think finding your passion is as much as finding what you are not passionate about. Its the reason why I like trying out so many things - I want to find what I truly don't enjoy.

When I was in school, I did 2 years of research. Some of it was photovoltaics research (solar cells) and I also did some shape memory alloys research used in space-grade actuators.

I found myself not enjoying it at all.

On my metallurgical project, I would go to the lab, have to handle the most monotonous task just to test one sample. One sample took 100 hours to prepare and had very little tolerance for error. The equipment I used was kind of outdated as well. I spent several hours everyday grinding a titanium billet the size of a miniature 1/2" knife so I could check its hardness and elasticity before I loaded it into the scanning electron microscope. I lost my samples quite a few times so I had to start over by creating a new billet in the arc furnace. In the end, the data I got had too much noise and basically didn't equate to enough to publish a paper. I still defended my thesis anyhow though. I did learn alot along the way spending hours reading graduate level papers. The research might have helped understand actuation failure for space grade components. But really I felt like I was crawling at a snails pacing with the work I did. I enjoy doing things for myself first and foremost.

I find what I am most passionate about really boils down to things I did as a kid. I used to make my own modded starcraft maps in elementary school. I would download a popular map, throw it in the editor, add new logic, so I could make a game either (1) more interesting or (2) add cheats and exploits for myself. It was fun. I also built my own computer as a kid too - debugging hardware was always painful, but the moment it clicked it felt so satisfying.

Other ways I find things I am and am not passionate about. I subscribe to about 800 things on youtube that I find fascinating. Most of it is related to a combination of math, computer science, electrical and mechanical engineering. Personally I have a serious deficit knowledge on all 4 of them, but I am always learning new things everyday. I still suck at math though and I can't seem to understand how to do mathmatical induction and/or proofs though.

I spent a lot of my freetime programming because this is the easiest subject to pick up of the ones mentioned above. Its also profitable. I think its okay to be passionate about more than one thing so long as it falls under the same umbrella of things you want to do - building cool stuff. And that its okay to not spend as much time workong on them due to time constraints. I also am pretty good at welding (200+ hours) and 3D modeling as well, among other things.

Ultimately my dream is to become a 10x engineer. Someone who is so good at building anything with their mind and hands that I could create new works of art. I take inspiration from a variety of leaders in those industries - from all age groups.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#57

Post by bad-joke » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #45

wazoox wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. And see the terrible situations is all and every vocational and artistic occupations. Competition is so fierce that almost everyone has to work basically for free and sustain themselves by doing menial job on the side. You could argue that most of them would be better finding a life occupation they're at least merely interested in instead, but providing decent living, and keeping their passion as a hobby. (I've…

In my highly subjective view artists are expecting to get paid for something that most of us have the capability to participate in with reasonable results given a similar investment of effort; in other words, most artists differ from the general population not in artistic aptitude, but rather in the desire to be an artist. I would love to sit around and play with ideas for a living, but it doesn't pay the bills in my…

Relatively speaking, the majority of people have the capability to do almost anything. It's only a matter of time and resources.

Natural abilities and genetics can accelerate the learning process, yes, but accelerated mastery is really only an advantage if you're trying to master as many things as possible within your lifespan, or you're working under some other deadline.

What I'm saying here is that artists can probably develop software just as well as anyone else here if they're willing to put in the time and resources.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#58

Post by Noumenon72 » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

wufufufu wrote: post #46

throwaway0255 wrote: post #22

I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that. Half the time it's something they don't even devote v…

> I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. This is you projecting your own motivations onto others.

This is you denying innate motivations because you don't consciously think about things that way.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#59

Post by watwut » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #34

nishantvyas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, "Find and follow your passion" social expectation from very early in life. In reality, 1) "finding passion" early is hard; Before one turns 12, brain is not fully develop to logically understand the true likes then from 13-19 it goes thru a huge amount of hormonal, emotional and physical changes... what's left is an average 19 year old teen with I'm "not sure my major" in college, let alone the passion...…

Funny, I feel like before 12 is when our brains are free of social constraints and are most free to determine what is enjoyable or not. 5 year olds certainly know what they like.

5 years old largely follow herd - thing becomes interesting the moment multiple other kids have it and cease to he interesting when other kids change interest.

They will start like things because admired adult claims to like them, they will start to hate food because adult or other kids said it is disgusting. If you praise kid during activity, they are significantly more likely to seek that activity later and if you yell at them they will hate the activity itself. Adults are much better at sorting these influences out.

You can easily manipulate pre schoolers to dislike things and while it is a bit harder to make them like things, it is still relatively easy.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#60

Post by hypertexthero » Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

hypertexthero wrote: post #51

anoplus wrote: post #18

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I…

> Now if we examine our life, our relationship with another, we shall see that it is a process of isolation. We are really not concerned with another; though we talk a great deal about it, actually we are not concerned. We are related to someone only so long as that relationship gratifies us, so long as it gives us a refuge, so long as it satisfies us. But the moment there is a disturbance in the relationship which p…

That sounded a little preachy!

I think the greatest value of meeting other people and cultivating friendships is that it provides a mirror that lets us learn more about our own selves, so it is worth doing so, from time to time, even if it makes us uncomfortable.

It is also important to stay away from [toxic people][1].

[1]: https://www.miltonglaser.com/files/Essays-10things-8400.pdf