51–60 of 72 posts
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Markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy.
> Markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy. That is an assertion, and my recollection of history suggests that is not the case. Would you mind backing that up?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy. That is an assertion, and my recollection of history suggests that is not the case. Would you mind backing that up?
Can you give an example of a liberal democracy without markets?
(markets have multiple definitions. a bazaar or person to person trade has existed as an independent variable of governance. a stock market ("the market" usually referred to in these sorts of articles) exists today in a wide variety of modern governance, from authoritarian to liberal. Arguably Athens had a liberal democracy, but no stock market)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give an example of a liberal democracy without markets?
Mmm- no, I don't think that's how this works. You're dodging the question. (markets have multiple definitions. a bazaar or person to person trade has existed as an independent variable of governance. a stock market ("the market" usually referred to in these sorts of articles) exists today in a wide variety of modern governance, from authoritarian to liberal. Arguably Athens had a liberal democracy, but no stock marke…
How what works?
> You're dodging the question.
I'm not. Every liberal democracy I know of has a market economy.
> a stock market ("the market" usually referred to in these sorts of articles)
Why should "markets" refer exclusively to stock markets? What about the most essential type of market: commodities? Markets have existed for millenia, since humans began to trade.
> exists today in a wide variety of modern governance, from authoritarian to liberal
I didn't say liberal democracy is a prerequisite for markets (and I don't think it is). I said markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy.
> Arguably Athens had a liberal democracy, but no stock market
But they had markets, which agrees with what I said. In fact, ancient Athens engaged extensively in trade. It's one of the major reasons it became an important center of culture, arts, and philosophy.
Europe has been rewriting the rules of the internet for a while. It's amazing how europe/EU is getting a pass when it comes to censorship. Not to mention what our corporations and our media have been doing. The problems with the internet isn't china. It's our media and our government but for some odd reason, all I hear is "china/beijing". Is beijing the reason why there is so much censorship? Is beijing the reason wh…
This is whataboutism. Nothing the West does compares to China's firewall and blanket surveillance, even if we stipulate we live in a corporatocracy and include the private surveillance of Facebook, Google, et al (which would make for an unfair comparison). I'm no apologist for the West's behavior or any of the things you point out, but let's not try and minimize the human rights violations China's committing -- and a…
Those that know their history better could expand upon this, but isn't this what happened in the late 1800s and early 1900s where globalization peaked and then gave way to nationalism/protectionism ? Perhaps we're just dealing with a natural cycle of trade expansion followed by protectionism.
Perhaps it is a natural cycle, but that doesn't mean we have to stop fighting it.
It was only a matter of time. Today computers like imacs, ipads, mobile phones or tvs(not even talking about Alexa), clocks could spy on you in your house at every single time and give the data back to home at the other side of the globe. Your pulse could be monitored, your movement could be monitored, who you talk with privately could be monitored, who you sleep with could be monitored. Once this is possible it is a…
You emphasized Government but most surveillance in countries like the U.S. and Australia/NZ is done by the status quo of self-styled "community leaders" spread across business, media, academia, religion, sports, and government. They informally network with one another in bar drink ups, legal war rooms, and prayer meetings, as well as surveil their targets and disseminate their messages via misled employees. Workers at internet providers, government departments, and vehicle leasing businesses provide customer data to associates and "friends" all the time, and a wide variety of channels such as news stories, entertainment, and social media are used to spread manufactured narratives. When you add the extent of this informal network to the formal U.S. government surveillance and interference, it could equal the extent of China's. Such American and Australian actors also frequently network with their "Chinese counterparts".
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Mentioning "whataboutism" should IMO be labelled as logical fallacy. Not once have I seen it used as a valid counterargument. Instead, it's always the same pattern: person A states a problem, person B points out that it's non-problem distracting attention from the core of the issue, and then person B gets accused of "whataboutism"...
Europe has been rewriting the rules of the internet for a while. It's amazing how europe/EU is getting a pass when it comes to censorship. Not to mention what our corporations and our media have been doing. The problems with the internet isn't china. It's our media and our government but for some odd reason, all I hear is "china/beijing". Is beijing the reason why there is so much censorship? Is beijing the reason wh…
This is whataboutism. Nothing the West does compares to China's firewall and blanket surveillance, even if we stipulate we live in a corporatocracy and include the private surveillance of Facebook, Google, et al (which would make for an unfair comparison). I'm no apologist for the West's behavior or any of the things you point out, but let's not try and minimize the human rights violations China's committing -- and a…
Let's fix our system before we go grand-standing about China.
This isn't totally bad. China has shown that it is possible to both offer an environment that fosters startups and online communities operating to their maximum creative potential while policing for things that incite hate, forms of bigotry, and ideas that create dangerous divisions. While China isn't perfect, I wouldn't mind if America was made less influential when it comes to the Internet.
> things that incite hate, forms of bigotry, and ideas that create dangerous divisions Is that a euphemism for “anything the Communist party dislikes”?
It was only a matter of time. Today computers like imacs, ipads, mobile phones or tvs(not even talking about Alexa), clocks could spy on you in your house at every single time and give the data back to home at the other side of the globe. Your pulse could be monitored, your movement could be monitored, who you talk with privately could be monitored, who you sleep with could be monitored. Once this is possible it is a…
> Once this is possible it is a temptation so great for the US Government(or any other Govertment) and status quo to resist You emphasized Government but most surveillance in countries like the U.S. and Australia/NZ is done by the status quo of self-styled "community leaders" spread across business, media, academia, religion, sports, and government. They informally network with one another in bar drink ups, legal war…