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Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

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Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#51

Post by dalbasal »

ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

To bring it full circle...

any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to result in philosophical statements like "everything I know about life, I learned playing rugby" or "In life, like chess, every move has a consequence."

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#52

Post by jchrisa »

ams6110 wrote: post #49
yardie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for 10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the voters and politicians want.

The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice and beans.

Being receptive to such arguments is the purpose of keeping people in poverty, which is otherwise completely optional in today's world.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#54

Post by fernandopj »

omeid2 wrote: post #3

Slightly off topic but I would like to mention that if you play chess online, the best one is lichess.org. It is free and opensource: https://github.com/ornicar/lila . I am unaffiliated but really like lichess.

They are indeed a great example of an OSS success. Their website is great, apps run smoothly, great community and a very active founder - he insists on the project being open and adfree forever, supported by patrons: https://lichess.org/patron

I'm also unaffiliated, just a user.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#55

Post by SubiculumCode »

implements wrote: post #21

Season 1, episode 3 of "The Wire" has a pretty inciteful scene featuring Chess as a metaphor for the criminal life ("Pawns get capped early."): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztc7o0NzFrE

As much as I love the Wire, it should have mentioned that collectively pawns are the most powerful. A good pawn structure controls the center and the game.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#56

Post by projectramo »

ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

Yes, if this had backfired I wonder if people would talk about how chess "Makes you see everything in black and white. You win or lose, or rarely draw. There is no team work!"

It would be interesting to know if chess is more effective than, say, reading or making movies. There is something intellectual about it.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#58

Post by binarymax »

ams6110 wrote: post #49
yardie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for 10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the voters and politicians want.

The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice and beans.

This argument is deeply flawed, since moving people into prisons is just throwing them away from your view. Many people are unjustly convicted and the idea of taking even more rights away from the incarcerated is barbaric and detrimental to our society. Prisons are micro-totalitarian regimes with abuse and violence as a part of every-day life. We should do everything we can do to reduce the number of people in prison and allow them to lead healthy and productive lives.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#59

Post by Verdex_3 »

ghaff wrote: post #50
ska wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on the limits of post-hoc reasoning. In my limited experience, these kids may reacting positively not due to anything specific about chess or the program, rather to the fact that people seem to care about their development and options. Plus the fact they are being put through a non-antagonistic and less dangerous program than juvie. I also think it's a great idea.

In the same vein, it's unfortunately pretty common for pilot programs like this to be successful, in part because there's lots of attention and focus on success. Then you scale it up and the good results evaporate.

Agree. Who do you get to do the pilot program for this sort of thing? The person who really has a passion for chess and believes that everyone can learn and even excel at it OR the person who's just trying to avoid going home where they have their own problems they are trying to avoid.

Also, which person do you imagine having a good effect on troubled youth.

And finally which person do you imagine they'll get when they mainline the program.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#60

Post by ska »

ghaff wrote: post #50
ska wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on the limits of post-hoc reasoning. In my limited experience, these kids may reacting positively not due to anything specific about chess or the program, rather to the fact that people seem to care about their development and options. Plus the fact they are being put through a non-antagonistic and less dangerous program than juvie. I also think it's a great idea.

In the same vein, it's unfortunately pretty common for pilot programs like this to be successful, in part because there's lots of attention and focus on success. Then you scale it up and the good results evaporate.

Particularly true if your "scaling up" assumes you can reduce costs at the same time (other than economies of scale).
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