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Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

blinkingcaret.com

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Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#51
post #46

I really don't understand why this is a bad practice. I know it is horrifying to give your web history to total stranger for god knows what purposes they will use. But going extra mile to implement privacy so that no site/some sites could talk behind your back (looking at you firefox multi account containers) seems like an equally horrific act that cripples websites not ad providers. When I used these kind of precaut…

> "I do enjoy targeted ads because when I am looking for something those ads could help a lot" You said could instead of do . Have they ever actually? Do you really click on ads? I don't think I've ever encountered somebody who admits to willingly clicking on ads. The only ad clickers I've seen are people who do it by accident or people who don't realize they're clicking on an ad (usually older folk with poor compute…

Clicked on multiple ads for a multitude of reasons in the course of the last 38 years. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one in here.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#52
post #25

What's the best way to circumvent this? Is it even possible? I'm no expert (which is why I ask), but I assume that blocking third-party cookies in your browser won't prevent situations like the tracker example the author provides. That is, since you visited tracker at least once, their cookie would have been set during that visit as a first-party cookie, and therefore the http requests to retrieve the 1x1 transparent…

> What's the best way to circumvent this? Is it even possible? 1) Get rid of the misfeatures that allow the problem to exist. Change the browser to never send headers that leak information by design (Referer, Cookie, Etag, User-Agent, etc ). 1.1) (Optional) Fix stateful sessions that previously depended on cookies with a new HTTP session+authentication feature (that doesn't have the problems that made the Authorizati…

I'm very much all for improving the security and privacy of the internet and my computer, but this seems pretty over the top to me.

> Get rid of the misfeatures that allow the problem to exist. Change the browser to never send headers that leak information by design (Referer, Cookie, Etag, User-Agent, etc).

The internet is the problem. If you want to get rid of being tracked on the internet, you have to stop using the internet. If you remove user agents & cookies & tags, you don't solve the problem and you lose some useful features. None of those things keeps your ISP from watching, nor do they stop web sites from noting your IP & requests and storing them on their end. And for anything you have to log into, there's no point to hiding headers.

> Of course, none of this will happen because the people with the power to make most of these changes derive a lot of their income from surveillance.

That's probably not true now, and it's definitely not representative of the reasons the features we have were invented in the first place. Some people really did want custom features to identify a computer's capabilities. Without headers, we'd gimp caching, and we can't differentiate between mobile & desktop, for example.

> Disable Javascript. Running Turing complete code from potentially malicious remote hosts will always be dangerous

This simply isn't possible to avoid in any practical way. Windows, MacOS and Linux run on code from a potentially malicious host, as do all applications you didn't write yourself. I mean, disable Javascript if you want, but you're also cutting yourself off from all web apps by doing that. And Javascript may have more security and oversight than anything you download from any app store, it's more sandboxed by design than binaries are.

I'm not sure why you're talking about the halting problem, that just isn't a serious concern in practice, it's a CS theoretic issue irrelevant to this thread or privacy. The major browsers will all let you kill stray JS processes.

Furthermore, because of browser sandboxing, it is possible to answer some questions about Javascript, unlike binaries you download from the internet. Frontend Javascript is not allowed to access arbitrary paths in the local filesystem without the local user's permission, just for one example. Nor can they read all cookies.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#53
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Firefox you can just install the uMatrix extension. It not only allows you to block cookies, but also javascript, frames, and images. You can choose to block only third party elements, third party elements from known tracking/ad agencies, or even first party elements.

In Chrome, you can also use uBlock Origin, which is potentially a little easier to use if you're not an advanced user. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpa...

I should have to install a plugin if I want to see targeted ads, not the other way around.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#54
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reddit will load the site and actually overlay a white screen to make it appear like it never loads if you block its cookies. That's CRAZY. Couldn't reproduce in Edge though.

This isn't uncommon for sites that sniff adblockers too, though it varies how much of an obstacle it is. Often you can Inspect the div they are covering things up with and just delete it (or block it for good with uBlock etc.) - clever implementations won't fetch the actual content you wanted to read, so you'll only uncover an empty page, though.

That's why I use Cookie AutoDelete. It lets the page set cookies, but as soon as you navigate away or close the tab, they're gone.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#55
post #51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I do enjoy targeted ads because when I am looking for something those ads could help a lot" You said could instead of do . Have they ever actually? Do you really click on ads? I don't think I've ever encountered somebody who admits to willingly clicking on ads. The only ad clickers I've seen are people who do it by accident or people who don't realize they're clicking on an ad (usually older folk with poor compute…

Clicked on multiple ads for a multitude of reasons in the course of the last 38 years. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one in here.

What were you clicking on in 1980?

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#56
post #50
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think HN logins work? Cookies are the basis of session management. If you don't want to store cookies for Google, don't. It's a feature right there in your browser. There are lots of shady tracking systems in the world and cookies aren't one of them: they are clear, user-visible, and in the user's direct control both in theory and in practice. Tor isn't relevant to this. If you're using Tor to block cookie…

Cookies are the basis of session management. They are one technique. In, oh, 1996, we did this by simply generating a unique URL for each user. If you wanted to stay logged in you bookmarked it, and if you didn’t you... didn’t. It was right there to see in the address bar as well, no sly hiding it in HTTP headers.

FWIW, cookies started being used for session management in 94. The privacy debate about them was going strong by 96.

> In, oh, 1996, we did this by simply generating a unique URL for each user.

That's certainly one way to do it, but you're not saying it's convenient or great for privacy, right? If the URL is the auth token, then there's no security. Typing URLs, sharing URLS, and bookmarking (logged in, logged out, shared links, server side rendering), all get problematic.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#57
post #4

At work I am forced to use Internet Explorer, and by using it I found a surprisingly useful feature: I can not only clock all third party cookies, but it prompts me as to whether I want a first party to store any cookies. The prompt allow allows me to automatically blacklist a site from providing me any cookies. I really enjoy this, as if I know there is a site I will never log into, I can permanently blacklist it wi…

Take a look at the "selfdestructing cookies" FF extension.

The problem with simply blocking cookies is that you'll break session handling at web hosts. That's probably why Reddit fails to work. And you don't need all that to avoid cookie tracking.

EDIT: Yep, looks like it's not compatible with the latest versions.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#58
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Not all cookies are bad, mind. They're one of the earliest widely adopted implementations of "local storage" for websites, and for a time they were the only reliable way a site could remember a visitor between requests." Could you elaborate on what you mean by "for a time they were the only reliable way a site could remember a visitor between requests"? Isn't this still the dominant/primary way websites add state t…

Adding to the other replies, there's also IndexedDB, which can store considerably larger amounts of information cross-session.

Is there a difference between using the LocalStorage API and IndexDB? Are these similar? The same?

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Not all cookies are bad, mind. They're one of the earliest widely adopted implementations of "local storage" for websites, and for a time they were the only reliable way a site could remember a visitor between requests." Could you elaborate on what you mean by "for a time they were the only reliable way a site could remember a visitor between requests"? Isn't this still the dominant/primary way websites add state t…

> What other way is there for managing se? In the 90's and early 00's I used to see the session token in the URL of every request. For example, instead of: Comments you write: /threads?id=throwawayjava">Comments or more commonly: ">Comments And when making a JSON request, instead of: post_with_session_cookie("/auth/api/ ", ...) you write: $.post("/auth/ /api/ ", ...) This has other major problems; the most obvious is…

Sure. I guess I didn't do a very good job articulating my question. What I really meant to ask is what other alternative exist on the "modern web" to manage session state without cookies. Cheers.

Re: Everyone is watching what you do online. How user tracking with cookies works

#60
post #43

What's the best way to circumvent this? Is it even possible? I'm no expert (which is why I ask), but I assume that blocking third-party cookies in your browser won't prevent situations like the tracker example the author provides. That is, since you visited tracker at least once, their cookie would have been set during that visit as a first-party cookie, and therefore the http requests to retrieve the 1x1 transparent…

One of the reasons I love HN is that the commenters here usually have a much deeper understanding of this sort of thing than I do. Which is why I'm left wondering why nobody has mentioned Firefox Incognito mode (chrome too I think). At least on firefox, incognito mode does not store cookies on disk. They persist for the duration of the tab/window you logged into. this would circumvent cookie tracking, I think. I mean…

Incognito, aka private browsing, aka guest profile, is a great way to avoid permanent cookies (and local storage too!). This feature exists on all major browsers.

This doesn't solve all tracking, but it will stop some cookie abuse. Choosing to use it also comes with the downside that you can't stay logged in to sites, and you may lose context & history you wanted to keep.

Incognito is super useful for web development precisely because you can very quickly get a fresh profile with no cookies in it.

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