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Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

bloomberg.com

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Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#51

Post by pentae »

bgorman wrote: post #33

The thing that stands out to me here is that Tesla has wasted a ton of time and money building up competency in commodity features. No consumer considers Tesla Seats to be the differentiating factor. Why on earth didn't Tesla just decide to use a more conventional seat design and outsource the work to a Seat supplier like all other car manufacturers. Kind of reminds me of Software Engineers that always want to roll t…

I'm guessing you missed this in the Article:

But relying on suppliers got Tesla into trouble with the Model X, when its engineers designed an extremely difficult-to-make “monopost” seat and an impossible-to-hit timeline. Problems with suppliers set production back by months, and Musk decided he wasn’t going to put up with it again.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#52

Post by zubiaur »

pentae wrote: post #51
bgorman wrote: post #33

The thing that stands out to me here is that Tesla has wasted a ton of time and money building up competency in commodity features. No consumer considers Tesla Seats to be the differentiating factor. Why on earth didn't Tesla just decide to use a more conventional seat design and outsource the work to a Seat supplier like all other car manufacturers. Kind of reminds me of Software Engineers that always want to roll t…

I'm guessing you missed this in the Article: But relying on suppliers got Tesla into trouble with the Model X, when its engineers designed an extremely difficult-to-make “monopost” seat and an impossible-to-hit timeline. Problems with suppliers set production back by months, and Musk decided he wasn’t going to put up with it again.

I’ve worked with for a Tesla supplier and can attest that they do ask for some exotic designs/stuff. What made my company a good partner is that it was relatevely small and technologically advanced, we could cope with their engineering requests and changes and collaborated on R&D. When they went for the model 3 they used a bigger OEM supplier. We heard constant complaints about lack of flexibility. They iterate faster than other manufacturers. They are... different.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#53

Post by erikb »

woodandsteel wrote: post #18

I understand that Musk comes up with his radical innovations by starting out with first principles and then reasoning from there. I wonder what was his specific set of thought processes that lead to the radically different approach that Tesla is taking to manufacture the Model 3.

smart phones where a radical innovation, but how is making batteries, electric cars, or reusing rockets radical?

From my understanding Musk is investing in tough challenges for prestige. The innovation, if any, comes from his engineers.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#54

Post by kchhina »

adventured wrote: post #35
bgorman wrote: post #33

The thing that stands out to me here is that Tesla has wasted a ton of time and money building up competency in commodity features. No consumer considers Tesla Seats to be the differentiating factor. Why on earth didn't Tesla just decide to use a more conventional seat design and outsource the work to a Seat supplier like all other car manufacturers. Kind of reminds me of Software Engineers that always want to roll t…

It's because Musk is a micro-manager that is easily frustrated by flaws in external solutions and more tolerant of even greater flaws internally. It's why he puts his nose into everything his companies do (eg in the article it mentions he had a role in designing the extruded aluminum base of the Model X seat, which is absurd).

I don’t think it is absurd. I think it shows he wants to know what goes into his cars and rockets. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had executives above me who had never even seen the products they were representing. I admire it when an executive can roll up their sleeves and get into it without being disruptive.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#55

Post by hndamien »

kjksf wrote: post #37
bgorman wrote: post #33

The thing that stands out to me here is that Tesla has wasted a ton of time and money building up competency in commodity features. No consumer considers Tesla Seats to be the differentiating factor. Why on earth didn't Tesla just decide to use a more conventional seat design and outsource the work to a Seat supplier like all other car manufacturers. Kind of reminds me of Software Engineers that always want to roll t…

One possibility: that mindset of mediocrity doesn't produce excellence. Apple, for example, is famous for caring about things that rationally they shouldn't care, like the insides of their computers. And since history is written by victors and we apply post factum rationalization, no one says that Apple is wrong to care about details that are arguably irrelevant to the success. The same will happen with Tesla. If Tes…

I believe this is also to do with political power (as is much of this play). The car dealship issue/ selling direct, was about power.

The reasons the seats were delayed was because they also contract with other car companies - so, priorities. This political mechanism applies to ever aspect of the car. If you build it all yourself, your competitors have 0 power over what you do.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#56

Post by Odenwaelder »

willart4food wrote: post #30
Odenwaelder wrote: post #3

How do you decide on which brand of robots to use? I remember seeing videos from the Model S production line having only KUKA robots, but for the Model 3, I only see FANUC.

I know how TESLA decides . . . .. they bought Grohmann Engineering, a German firm that specializes in automated manufacturing. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/8/13561146/tesla-acquisitio...

Grohmann doesn't build robots.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#57

Post by rainbowmverse »

gregpilling wrote: post #43
darzu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know approx. how much one of these costs? https://www.fanucamerica.com/home/products-services/robots/f...

a fairly standard industrial welding cell like a Panasonic 750 is between $85 to 125 thousand dollars per unit, which includes robot arm, welding power supply, turntable, chassis that is it mounted to, and the transformer to power it. Requires 240V 3ph 60A service. http://www.insrobotics.com/panasonic-robotic-parts-repair/Pa... Source: I own two. They kick ass, and make more stuff that you would believe is possible i…

What does one do with just two manufacturing robots?

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#58

Post by rainbowmverse »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #2

>But relying on suppliers got Tesla into trouble with the Model X, when its engineers designed an extremely difficult-to-make “monopost” seat and an impossible-to-hit timeline. I chuckled a bit when I read this. I can relate to this a lot. For awhile I worked at a university in the mechanical engineering department machine shop. I like to think I know when I'm talking about when I say that everyone makes this mistake…

They might have been preparing for their trucks. A lot of engineering time is spent on their ride quality, so I wouldn't be surprised if they use a lot of highly custom parts.

If you're planning to take over trucking, working out some of the details early with your cars might make sense.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#59

Post by woodandsteel »

erikb wrote: post #53
woodandsteel wrote: post #18

I understand that Musk comes up with his radical innovations by starting out with first principles and then reasoning from there. I wonder what was his specific set of thought processes that lead to the radically different approach that Tesla is taking to manufacture the Model 3.

smart phones where a radical innovation, but how is making batteries, electric cars, or reusing rockets radical? From my understanding Musk is investing in tough challenges for prestige. The innovation, if any, comes from his engineers.

>how is making batteries, electric cars, or reusing rockets radical?

No one ever made a reusable satellite-launching rocket before that landed on its tail and was cheaper than a disposable rocket. And Musk came up with the basic plan for how to do it.

Nobody made an electric car before that ran off of lithium ion batteries, and no one made an electric luxury car. And Musk made up the basic plan for doing it.

Or perhaps you already knew all this and are in a tight spot because you shorted a whole lot of Tesla stock.

Re: Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory

#60

Post by rconti »

danso wrote: post #36
rconti wrote: post #32

A few random comments, having toured a few auto plants and watched plenty of videos: * I'm surprised to hear Tesla is using robots to install seats. This isn't common, from what I've seen. * I toured the Tesla factory back in October, perhaps a month after touring BMW in Munich. Tesla was vastly less automated than BMW, for better or for worse. So I take the whole "Tesla is automating EVERYTHING!" with a grain of sal…

> So I take the whole "Tesla is automating EVERYTHING!" with a grain of salt. FTA: > Even so, Tesla says the Model 3 body line is now 95 percent automated, including the transfer, loading, and welding of parts. Apparently, there's a big difference between the "body line" assembly and the rest of the line, as people in r/teslamotors have pointed out: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8pim5q/inside_... > Wh…

Ah, cool, thanks. Yeah, I saw humans doing TONS of stuff at Tesla; driving forklifts around (dragging chunks of wood under the wheels and bumping into things), etc. OTOH its also possible BMW just hides that stuff from their tours :)
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