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ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

nytimes.com

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Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#51

Post by Hasknewbie »

adventured wrote: post #29
Hasknewbie wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's insane that the US is threatening EU companies for (currently, legally) doing business in Iran, while at the same time letting ZTE get away with, well, having done the same thing (except illegally, when the sanctions were still in place). And all of that to save "many jobs"... in China.

ZTE didn't get away with anything. The US action against them nearly destroyed the company and they've been fined $2.2 billion. As of right now, if all the US has done is threaten sanctions on EU companies, then it's ZTE that has received the dramatically worse outcome.

ZTE objectively got punished with a lot less than what was meant. They got away with a lot, while the US chickened out. And EU companies will lose a lot more than a billion (caused by the US breaking an international treaty).

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#52

Post by genericone »

mikeash wrote: post #50
genericone wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look it up since I didn't know enough about it, but it looks like the Clinton Foundation was set up in 1997, at the beginning of Bill's 2nd term. As for mentioning Obama's term, what I meant by that was that since Hillary was Secretary of State at the time, there's definite potential for conflict of interest. I used wikipedia for my info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation

From that article: “The origins of the foundation go back to 1997, when then-president Bill Clinton was focused mostly on fundraising for the future Clinton Presidential Center in Little Rock, Arkansas. He founded the William J. Clinton Foundation in 2001 following the completion of his presidency.”

Whether its a charity/fundraiser/guest-lecture/business-deal, I imagine it still works the same way, regardless of the stated focus or purpose of said thing: Money goes in, Influence comes out (or Favor_B in exchange for Favor_A). I have neither money nor influence, and the favors I can grant are minuscule, so I can't tell you what ratio of Money:Influence works for powerful people, but I can at least say that they are not inversely proportional. The more you give, the higher your surface area becomes to receive something and the more offended you can act if you don't receive something quid pro quo.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#53

Post by tropo »

adventured wrote: post #28
devy wrote: post #5

You'd be naive to think if ZTE were to go under will be at America's best interest. U.S. semiconductor industry as a whole will be impacted as ZTE is one of the largest mobile handset and networking equipment manufacturer.

The only reason the US is concerned with saving ZTE from going under in this instance, is as a favor-trade with China (they sign off on Qualcomm-NXP, the US gets to conclude eating an important EU company). It acts as an overall goodwill exchange in the midst of the trade deal positioning.

Hey, fair is fair. Your "important EU company" ate up Freescale and VLSI Technology, both of which were important US companies. We're just taking our stuff back.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#54

Post by candiodari »

genericone wrote: post #52
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that article: “The origins of the foundation go back to 1997, when then-president Bill Clinton was focused mostly on fundraising for the future Clinton Presidential Center in Little Rock, Arkansas. He founded the William J. Clinton Foundation in 2001 following the completion of his presidency.”

Whether its a charity/fundraiser/guest-lecture/business-deal, I imagine it still works the same way, regardless of the stated focus or purpose of said thing: Money goes in, Influence comes out (or Favor_B in exchange for Favor_A). I have neither money nor influence, and the favors I can grant are minuscule, so I can't tell you what ratio of Money:Influence works for powerful people, but I can at least say that they a…

Here's one thing the public purse gave to the Clinton foundation:

https://nypost.com/2016/10/02/bill-clintons-executive-suite-...

(Of course the real power behind money isn't the money itself, the ownership, but the power to use it. So for taxpayer's money, the power comes from the mayor, governor or president and to a lesser extent congress/senate and their lower level equivalents. For companies the power behind the money is management/directors/CEO, and to a (much) lesser extent shareholders. So one should always make the distinction between ownership and the ability to control something. The control is much better than ownership, for one thing, control is not taxed)

And before you say "but that's the president". Well we know about Bill Clinton, don't we. He's the sort of man that forces people in his employ to service him sexually. So clearly, he's the sort of guy that takes "one service for another" pretty damn (in fact illegally) far.

Now you can say "but Bush, and Obama (and even Trump) are better than that". Perhaps, but first, not likely, and secondly even if it's just the one, the results will be similar, perhaps a bit more limited in time at best.

One wonders just what level of favor that buys, but it must have been ... well let's say at least $20 million worth of favor. If you can put a price on it at all, as this is a property that doesn't get taxed, even gets maintained and serviced by the government for free and normally wouldn't be available at all. So that price is the cost price of this thing, actually buying this as a private individual would have been at the very least 10 times that.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#55

Post by mikeash »

candiodari wrote: post #54
genericone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether its a charity/fundraiser/guest-lecture/business-deal, I imagine it still works the same way, regardless of the stated focus or purpose of said thing: Money goes in, Influence comes out (or Favor_B in exchange for Favor_A). I have neither money nor influence, and the favors I can grant are minuscule, so I can't tell you what ratio of Money:Influence works for powerful people, but I can at least say that they a…

Here's one thing the public purse gave to the Clinton foundation: https://nypost.com/2016/10/02/bill-clintons-executive-suite-... (Of course the real power behind money isn't the money itself, the ownership, but the power to use it. So for taxpayer's money, the power comes from the mayor, governor or president and to a lesser extent congress/senate and their lower level equivalents. For companies the power behind the…

What do you mean, “the public purse”? That was funded entirely with donations.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#56

Post by candiodari »

mikeash wrote: post #55
candiodari wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one thing the public purse gave to the Clinton foundation: https://nypost.com/2016/10/02/bill-clintons-executive-suite-... (Of course the real power behind money isn't the money itself, the ownership, but the power to use it. So for taxpayer's money, the power comes from the mayor, governor or president and to a lesser extent congress/senate and their lower level equivalents. For companies the power behind the…

What do you mean, “the public purse”? That was funded entirely with donations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Presidential_Center

So $165 million, firstly $11.5 million directly from the local government, > 10% from foreign governments, and several high 6 figure "donations" from people he pardoned (on top of those people paying "consultation fees" to close family members of the Clintons).

I probably should have said "by the public purse, among others".

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#57

Post by bluesroo »

Hasknewbie wrote: post #51
adventured wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ZTE didn't get away with anything. The US action against them nearly destroyed the company and they've been fined $2.2 billion. As of right now, if all the US has done is threaten sanctions on EU companies, then it's ZTE that has received the dramatically worse outcome.

ZTE objectively got punished with a lot less than what was meant. They got away with a lot, while the US chickened out. And EU companies will lose a lot more than a billion (caused by the US breaking an international treaty).

The US did not break an international treaty. It was a "deal" from Obama, which he never put in front of the Senate to actually become an international treaty... Likely because the Senate would not have confirmed it as it was.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#58

Post by spoiledtechie »

mikeash wrote: post #44
spoiledtechie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.4 Billion in penalties. I don't see any other President of the USA doing that. Its a WIN for us.

You don’t see any other President doing that? This doesn’t even make the top 10! https://learn.censible.co/risky-business-top-ten-corporate-c...

Of a foreign country?? Try again...

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#59

Post by spoiledtechie »

ntnn wrote: post #23
spoiledtechie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.4 Billion in penalties. I don't see any other President of the USA doing that. Its a WIN for us.

... the US armed forces are spending roughly 2b every day (~590b in 2015, proposed ~680b in 2019). That penalty is a drop on a hot stone. That's not a "WIN".

I don't understand why you bring in the military budget.

I could do the same with welfare, as it greatly outnumbers military spending even though its no where in our constitution or bill of rights to offer such.

Remove your personal issue and think about this rationally please.

Re: ZTE of China to Pay $1B Fine in Deal to End U.S. Sanctions

#60

Post by mikeash »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #58
mikeash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t see any other President doing that? This doesn’t even make the top 10! https://learn.censible.co/risky-business-top-ten-corporate-c...

Of a foreign country?? Try again...

Several of the companies on that list are foreign, including #3 and #1.
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