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Intel accused of age discrimination

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51–60 of 78 posts

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the bosses at Intel just hate older people (unlikely as they are almost all older people) they are doing this for economic reasons alone. I say this as someone already over-the-hill age wise that we really need to find a way to allow people as they age to be able to accept a lower wage that matches their productivity. Far fewer old people would be made redundant if they got a wage cut every year instead of a r…

First, productivity (as in widgets per hour) is a bad measure for knowledge worker value. It's famously hard to measure the output of teams of engineers over long periods of time, let alone the recent output of a single engineer. Second, it is just taken as a given here that knowledge workers become less productive over time. Why are engineers downhill starting in middle age but not doctors, lawyers, professors, and…

IF you never cut anyone's wage because there's no fair way to measure performance, then there's also no reason to give anyone a raise. But people do get raises, even when they might not deserve them. The more raises an employee has received, the more likely it is that some of them weren't justified. Without wage cuts, you end up with people who are overpaid because their productivity didn't increase with their pay, not because their productivity actually declined.

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#52
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many employers are able to justify it because When an employee is at the best position (age wise), they hop jobs a lot and negotiate higher pay even at the detriment of the company. Yes, it does cost a lot when an employee hops too much. Employers have no option here. This system will always have winners, you can definitely improve the situation but you'll have to tax the winners, it has never worked well in…

> Employers have no option here. Employees hop because of wage stagnation -- there is an option here, prevent wage stagnation.

They also hop because of growth stagnation. If you have young employees working on the same outdated technology every year, don't be surprised when they quickly leave, even if you have "competitive wages and benefits". A large part of an engineers' compensation is in marketable skills and experience.

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#53

> older workers tend to be better paid So, if the metric is "remove employees that cost the most but don't seem to justify the cost," it's going to look like age discrimination, even if it wasn't. I don't know whether Intel did this or not, but the point is that you can't assume the intent by the result alone.

> ...you can't assume the intent by the result alone

The "disparate impact theory" in legal reasoning says the opposite, more or less:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reasonably curious Computer Science graduate that stays up to date a bit with current technologies will be as effective at 50 as your average 50 year old lawyer. You just need to check your underlying assumptions (aka axioms) once every 5 years or so. But core CS is as the name says, science. It doesn't change every 1-2 years. Knuth wrote about searching and sorting back in the 60s, neural network (pardon me, machi…

NNs and ML go back a few decades earlier than the 80s :)

My bad, I couldn't remember how old they were and was too lazy to dig for the exact year. They're pre-web technology, anyway :p

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#55
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say older employees in corporations tend to be middle managers. If the layoffs affect more management than the engineering side you are going to have a skewed graph.

It would be nice if productivity was measured by line of codes. That way we get rid of all the managers and executives who spend their days to come up with stupid ideas and say 'make it so by arbitrary date'.

Yeah, I can't wait to get pay deducted for days when you remove fluff from the code base or refactor code into more readable and efficient software.

Lines-of-code/time is a terrible measurement.

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#57
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say older employees in corporations tend to be middle managers. If the layoffs affect more management than the engineering side you are going to have a skewed graph.

It would be nice if productivity was measured by line of codes. That way we get rid of all the managers and executives who spend their days to come up with stupid ideas and say 'make it so by arbitrary date'.

My greatest accomplishment in the last year was deleting 30-50 thousand lines of code. I've written probably a thousand. Some days I spend 6 hours debugging something to change 4 lines.

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say older employees in corporations tend to be middle managers. If the layoffs affect more management than the engineering side you are going to have a skewed graph.

It would be nice if productivity was measured by line of codes. That way we get rid of all the managers and executives who spend their days to come up with stupid ideas and say 'make it so by arbitrary date'.

This often encourages bloated and less elegant, simple code

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that "Older people are less innovative, learn slower and so on." what would you guess the average age of founders with a successful startup exit is? (A) 22 (B) 26 (C) 31

That might be the reason for most of the startup failing eh? Statistics can be taken anywhere.

I’m not sure I understand. 47 is the average age for founders with successful exits.

Re: Intel accused of age discrimination

#60
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say older employees in corporations tend to be middle managers. If the layoffs affect more management than the engineering side you are going to have a skewed graph.

It would be nice if productivity was measured by line of codes. That way we get rid of all the managers and executives who spend their days to come up with stupid ideas and say 'make it so by arbitrary date'.

Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight.
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