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China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

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Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#51

I don’t know why our society hasn’t fully realized that everything is 3% more expensive specifically because of these fees. Europe at least has far lower upper limits on these fees. I hope someone is able to replace the banks here one day.

"I don't know why our society hasn't realized that everything is X% more expensive specifically because of these [things that are required to pay for the service you're getting]"

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#52

The banks have been pushing for a cashless society for awhile now. So once they achieve their goal of preventing me from paying someone else $10 without a 3rd party getting a 2-3% fee for the privilege of exchanging money between two private parties, it won't be them getting the 2-3%? Cry me a river.

Hmm, most other countries have free transfers between bank accounts. It's just the US (maybe a few others) still stuck in the stone age.

Yup. Woke up this morning, FB message with a spreadsheet. Some friends going on holiday together, one has taken responsibility for the house we're renting, got the bill today, cut it up, sent it out. I copy-posted the amount into a web form from my bank and it was in their account later this morning at zero cost to either of us.

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#53

The critical difference is that in China, the apps effectively are the banks, whereas in the US, regulatory capture ensures that the banks stay the banks and it's the app's problem to figure out how to interface with them. The reason the banks are scared is not because "banks" are not involved. They're scared because these apps have successfully vertically integrated to become banks. This is the logical next step for…

>They're scared because these apps have successfully vertically integrated to become banks. I'm not sure tech companies really want the core banking business, which is to lend money (taking on credit risk in the process) funded by deposits. I can imagine Amazon doing it for smaller consumer purchases as they know their customers well. But who will make loans to SMEs and larger retail loans? Google and Apple? I doubt…

I wonder if the roles of "payment network operator" and "credit provider" need to be as entwined as they are now

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're scared because these apps have successfully vertically integrated to become banks. I'm not sure tech companies really want the core banking business, which is to lend money (taking on credit risk in the process) funded by deposits. I can imagine Amazon doing it for smaller consumer purchases as they know their customers well. But who will make loans to SMEs and larger retail loans? Google and Apple? I doubt…

I wonder if the roles of "payment network operator" and "credit provider" need to be as entwined as they are now

That's a good point. I think they are not nearly as entwined as they used to be (before Paypal) and that trend is going to continue.

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#55
post #41

Even the first line of illustration is kind of misleading - "Paycheck is deposited into employee's bank account"; there's no such thing as a paycheck in most places worldwide, no checks get involved. The employers pay out the salary with free or cheap bank-to-bank payments, and have done it long enough that the term 'check' has no colloquial relation to your salary. The main difference for accessibility of such payme…

Remember that we still call our pocket supercomputers "phones".

Also we keep thinking the important thing is that they're computers but actually the important thing is the Network. So in a way phones (which are all about being connected to the network) might be the best term anyway even though we rarely use them to make a voice call.

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#56
post #41

Even the first line of illustration is kind of misleading - "Paycheck is deposited into employee's bank account"; there's no such thing as a paycheck in most places worldwide, no checks get involved. The employers pay out the salary with free or cheap bank-to-bank payments, and have done it long enough that the term 'check' has no colloquial relation to your salary. The main difference for accessibility of such payme…

Remember that we still call our pocket supercomputers "phones".

Again, only in America. They're "mobiles" many places.

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#57

The critical difference is that in China, the apps effectively are the banks, whereas in the US, regulatory capture ensures that the banks stay the banks and it's the app's problem to figure out how to interface with them. The reason the banks are scared is not because "banks" are not involved. They're scared because these apps have successfully vertically integrated to become banks. This is the logical next step for…

"The critical difference is that in China, the apps effectively are the banks, whereas in the US, regulatory capture ensures that the banks stay the banks and it's the app's problem to figure out how to interface with them."

Are you sure it's that? Or is it that the apps don't want to have the responsibility of safeguarding people's money? Cause really, payments and money are things where you really do not want to "move fast and break things".

Re: China’s Payment Apps Give U.S. Bankers Nightmares

#58

The critical difference is that in China, the apps effectively are the banks, whereas in the US, regulatory capture ensures that the banks stay the banks and it's the app's problem to figure out how to interface with them. The reason the banks are scared is not because "banks" are not involved. They're scared because these apps have successfully vertically integrated to become banks. This is the logical next step for…

The critical difference is that in China, the apps effectively are the banks, whereas in the US, regulatory capture ensures that the banks stay the banks and it's the app's problem to figure out how to interface with them.

My wife works in banking, for a small local bank. The regulations are heavily skewed against smaller banks. Regulations around consumer mortgages seem to be designed to keep smaller banks out. Unless you have the resources to engage in sizeable software projects, you will have to write your own software, spend a lot of money on software licensing, or engage in a lot of manual work while risking draconian penalties for little mistakes.

So regulatory capture doesn't just mean rigging the game for banks. It's only the large corporations that do the rigging and gain the benefit.

Tech needs to figure out how to combine the power of small community banks. Small community banks can only survive through having superior local intelligence. That superior local intelligence is worth a heck of a lot in aggregate.

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