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US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

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Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, the richer someone is, the less likely they are to have as many children. See https://www.economist.com/node/21561112 .

Doesn’t that still track? Having children makes it harder to get/stay rich, not having children makes it easier.

The causal connection works the opposite way. When you are rich, you have fewer kids.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#52
post #8

For decades, the US birth rate has been held up by immigration. American values have been to regard the country as a nation of immigrants, who not only act as a source of youthful workers, but also have more kids than Americans who have been here longer. So the US has avoided workforce aging, as has happened in parts of Europe and especially Japan, through immigration. With the recent reduction in immigration, accele…

I don't see the value in large numbers of unskilled workers entering the US every year. With a potentially large wave of automation coming, the US shouldn't straddled itself with lots of unemployable drivers, farm workers, etc. I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example.

Immigrants to the US have the same level of college completion as natives: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/03/key-findings...

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#53
post #8

For decades, the US birth rate has been held up by immigration. American values have been to regard the country as a nation of immigrants, who not only act as a source of youthful workers, but also have more kids than Americans who have been here longer. So the US has avoided workforce aging, as has happened in parts of Europe and especially Japan, through immigration. With the recent reduction in immigration, accele…

I don't see the value in large numbers of unskilled workers entering the US every year. With a potentially large wave of automation coming, the US shouldn't straddled itself with lots of unemployable drivers, farm workers, etc. I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example.

> I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example.

We have a decent immigration system in terms of getting the right kinds of advanced folks.

The problem is we are also unwilling to do what needs to be done to stem the tide of unskilled illegal labor that flows into the nation.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#55
post #24
post #5

Student loans, housing costs, job prospects, healthcare, childcare. People are making a rational decision to avoid children they can’t afford. We as a society need to re-examine the causes of rising costs of essentials so reproduction is no longer financially infeasible.

> Student loans, housing costs, job prospects, healthcare, childcare. People are making a rational decision to avoid children they can’t afford. Well, people in the US made way more children when they made very few money, and lived 10 together in tiny houses and apartments. And they still do in the developing world. So it can't be just costs.

Costs in terms of time and money.

In the past, kids could work on the farm or in a factory and generate money, now you have to send them to daycare and buy them toys and they cost money.

Previously, more people would jump straight out of high school into blue collar jobs and raising families. Now, men and women are delaying kids to focus on college and building a career.

And mothers would more often stay home to raise kids. Now both parents are working more, and there's less time to spend raising children.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#57

What are the economic ramifications of fertility rate being below the replacement level?

There will be a lot more older folks, who expected to retire and collect social security, still in the workforce as a result of diminishing payments by youngsters into that program. Demand for medical care will continue grow as the majority of the population gets older. I believe Japan is experiencing this right now at a large scale.

Not just social security: it's public pensions and health care too - every program that expects a pyramid population shape with many young workers supporting a few older ones is going to implode in the next few decades. It's gonna get ugly.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#58
This is driven by a very simple thing - pension funds and insurance.

Back in the day (and in poor countries with no pension funds) people knew that they had to have children because otherwise nobody would support them when they were old and they'd die. Right now people are confident that they will get a pension when they are old, so there is no reason for them to have kids.

They consider children as an inconvenience, miss out on the marvel of parenthood, and basically make the nation die off gradually.

Plus of course - lowering wages and women having to work, thus making having a child a huge problem.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#59
post #5

Student loans, housing costs, job prospects, healthcare, childcare. People are making a rational decision to avoid children they can’t afford. We as a society need to re-examine the causes of rising costs of essentials so reproduction is no longer financially infeasible.

[deleted]

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#60
post #4

What are the economic ramifications of fertility rate being below the replacement level?

See Japan and Italy....

Japan is a prosperous high HDI nation. They have clearly decided that making bankers happy is not worth sacrificing their national identity by inviting mass immigration. They may not appear to be "winning" to those who measure civilizational success by the quarter but I bet their way wins out in the long run.
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