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Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

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Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#51

Post by panabee »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
dsl wrote: post #25

Starting an ISP is relatively easy... get an uplink, some rack space somewhere, a router, hire a smart high school kid for tech support, and you are off to the races. The really hard part is last-mile connectivity. You are either on someone elses lines (cable, DSL, etc), dealing with NIMBYs to bury your own lines, or working around line of site to do wireless. It isn't clear that you've solved this problem (or even f…

The hard part doesn’t scale. Takes boots on the ground geographically to assess what’s possible and implement what’s cost effective (copper or fixed wireless, maybe fiber if its greenfield and you have cheap trenching capabilities).

thanks for sharing! out of curiosity, how do people typically trench today? which companies do you consider on the leading edge in terms of trenching price and technology?

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#53

Post by toomuchtodo »

panabee wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part doesn’t scale. Takes boots on the ground geographically to assess what’s possible and implement what’s cost effective (copper or fixed wireless, maybe fiber if its greenfield and you have cheap trenching capabilities).

thanks for sharing! out of curiosity, how do people typically trench today? which companies do you consider on the leading edge in terms of trenching price and technology?

Your local construction or electrical contractors are usually best suited for this work, using something like a ditch witch or trencher. This isn’t cutting edge work, just a trade.

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#54

Post by montasaurus »

willart4food wrote: post #42

This is interesting, I do have a few questions that I could not find in your FAQ: - how do you provision the last mile? Copper? Fiber? or Wireless? - Do you rely on the Local Exchanges? or is it on a case-by-case basis? - Is your typical ISP customer selling to business? Individuals? or is best-fit an apartment complex/business building? Thank you.

We use fixed wireless for our last mile (60GHz and 5.8GHz in SF). We haven't been reliant on Local Exchanges. We'd typically be selling to residential end users (single family homes and/or MDUs).

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#55

Post by panabee »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #53
panabee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for sharing! out of curiosity, how do people typically trench today? which companies do you consider on the leading edge in terms of trenching price and technology?

Your local construction or electrical contractors are usually best suited for this work, using something like a ditch witch or trencher. This isn’t cutting edge work, just a trade.

thank you for sharing. just to be clear, you're saying there is no nationwide company/brand for trenching? ISPs like comcast and verizon just use local contractors/companies?

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#56

Post by entropie »

montasaurus wrote: post #37
dsl wrote: post #25

Starting an ISP is relatively easy... get an uplink, some rack space somewhere, a router, hire a smart high school kid for tech support, and you are off to the races. The really hard part is last-mile connectivity. You are either on someone elses lines (cable, DSL, etc), dealing with NIMBYs to bury your own lines, or working around line of site to do wireless. It isn't clear that you've solved this problem (or even f…

It's largely an infrastructure business at the end of the day, and not without its challenges. The real problem is that there are people willing to take on these challenges, but they get stuck as early as the "get an uplink" part of that process. Just digging into that piece, there are a lot of decisions. Burstable or dedicated? Why are they billing based on 95th percentile? How much bandwidth should I budget per sub…

Just because i courious;

> We deploy fixed wireless here in SF, mainly 60GHz and 5.8GHz.

That would be probably not possible in germany where everything is highly regulated, right?

If, there is a relative fresh projekt around here in germany, where a guy bought an old horsefarm and creates small areas where different individuals can do their stuff (cooking, gardening, a music studie open to use for musicians who cant afford a real studio). This guys really struggle to get good permanent internet connection - but they recently got visited by the CCC so i guess they will hear from you guys and contact you if they like.

Really cool project!

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#57

Post by toomuchtodo »

panabee wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your local construction or electrical contractors are usually best suited for this work, using something like a ditch witch or trencher. This isn’t cutting edge work, just a trade.

thank you for sharing. just to be clear, you're saying there is no nationwide company/brand for trenching? ISPs like comcast and verizon just use local contractors/companies?

To my knowledge, yes. Whenever I’ve had Comcast, Verizon, or another provider pull a last mile of fiber, it’s been done by a local contractor (my experience is limited to Illinois, Florida, Indiana, and Wisconsin) with the upstream provider coordinating the turnup.

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#58

Post by panabee »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #57
panabee wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for sharing. just to be clear, you're saying there is no nationwide company/brand for trenching? ISPs like comcast and verizon just use local contractors/companies?

To my knowledge, yes. Whenever I’ve had Comcast, Verizon, or another provider pull a last mile of fiber, it’s been done by a local contractor (my experience is limited to Illinois, Florida, Indiana, and Wisconsin) with the upstream provider coordinating the turnup.

thanks, final question if you don't mind. :) do you know how much the average trenching job costs or how long it takes (order of magnitude)? $10K and days, $100K and weeks, or ...?

thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Re: Launch HN: Necto (YC W18) – ISP Starter Kit

#59

Post by tejon »

entropie wrote: post #56
montasaurus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's largely an infrastructure business at the end of the day, and not without its challenges. The real problem is that there are people willing to take on these challenges, but they get stuck as early as the "get an uplink" part of that process. Just digging into that piece, there are a lot of decisions. Burstable or dedicated? Why are they billing based on 95th percentile? How much bandwidth should I budget per sub…

Just because i courious; > We deploy fixed wireless here in SF, mainly 60GHz and 5.8GHz. That would be probably not possible in germany where everything is highly regulated, right? If, there is a relative fresh projekt around here in germany, where a guy bought an old horsefarm and creates small areas where different individuals can do their stuff (cooking, gardening, a music studie open to use for musicians who cant…

Frequencies are heavily regulated in the US as well. There are a handful of public bands, but anything else requires FCC licensing to use. Broadcast power is also restricted.

Of course, Germany could still be more restrictive, I don't know the law there! But there must be a fairly simple licensing path for some microwave bands, or nobody would be able to sell wireless routers. This is the same general class of equipment, so unless there's too much restriction on broadcast power to connect at kilometer+ ranges (with a focused directional antenna, rather than the broadcast antenna of a router!) there should be a way to make it work.

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