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Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

bbc.com

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Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#51

Post by ekianjo »

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

> This is a case of basic human rights.

There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week. For most of human history people lived in abject misery and precariousness and in comparison 72 hours a week and most folks having all the comfort of modern city life is not as bad as it sounds like.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#52

Post by mc32 »

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

I think one has to contrast that with the historical conditions for workers (even in a socialist country) as well as the differences between sweatshop factories versus white collar workers. My take is while the sweatshop workers are the ones putting in extraordinary hours, it’s the white collar workers fighting against useless overtime pretend work in offices.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#53

Post by GW150914 »

ekianjo wrote: post #51
1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

> This is a case of basic human rights. There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week. For most of human history people lived in abject misery and precariousness and in comparison 72 hours a week and most folks having all the comfort of modern city life is not as bad as it sounds like.

You’re not wrong, but for most of human history I could declare that you offended me and challenge you to fight to the death. “Most of human history” is a bad standard and is essentially hypocritical to raise selectively. People don’t compare their lives to those of ancient barbarians, they look around themselves today and they look to the future. Few people will be convinced by the argument that they have it better than a serf who died at 30, or s hunter-gatherer.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#54

Post by ytNumbers »

madeofpalk wrote: post #26
ausjke wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gosh this sounds like a revolution in the cooking state, is this totally true? maybe not that bad I hope. the big problems are the debt and the house bubble, one of them blows up will cause serious issues, so far so good it seems.

Not sure if I'm missing sarcasm or anything, but this sounds like the exact same problem as everywhere else in the world.

In terms of using high tech for oppression, the Chinese are the world leaders by far. However, I have to admit that plenty of countries are slowly evolving towards emulating the new high tech Chinese model of tyranny.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#55

Post by danharaj »

ekianjo wrote: post #51
1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

> This is a case of basic human rights. There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week. For most of human history people lived in abject misery and precariousness and in comparison 72 hours a week and most folks having all the comfort of modern city life is not as bad as it sounds like.

There were periods in medieval history when a typical peasant only worked ~150 days out of the year.

While you are right that life was difficult, your sense of the past is warped to the point of caricature.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#56

Post by nimbius »

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid, can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast.

somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spending nearly 70 hours a week in a shop that advertised working hours of about 8 hours a day. My paycheck was more than enough to buy a new motorcycle, but social events like going out to dinner or seeing a ball game were out of the question. I was exhausted by the time I finished, despite the fact that most of my work used air tools. I could only keep it up for about a month before i started to seriously burn out. I found out managers despised having to cut huge overtime checks but found hiring a new tech too time consuming and costly in terms of training and certification. Whats worse is sometime around the thanksgiving holiday I walked into the shop with nearly 30 brake services to do in a single day because the front office had made promises to customers that I would be available without checking to see that I had a major engine service that would take up most of the day.

Young guns might want overtime, but management can get addicted to it and its not a problem until you're knee deep in paperwork and turning customers away.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#57

Post by nathanyukai »

teknopaul wrote: post #46

I went to China and everyone i met was doing 9-5 monday to friday. A school leaver with no qualifications in his chosen career finds his first job is crap is not really world news. Change jobs and hang in there kid. China's unemployment rate is lower than the uk where this article originates. You have labour laws. The worst expected unpaid overtime hours i ever worked or saw worked was in a bank in London. 885 was to…

I'm surprised with your experience. I'm chinese and almost everyone I know work for extra hours regularly, without any extra salary. It's definitely a bad work culture and being discussed a lot on varies chinese forums

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#58

Post by josefresco »

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

The comment about how they are outspoken and pampered was a general statement about the generation, not a reaction to them wanting better working conditions/wages. The mention of "self-centered" was a direct quote.

I do agree however that the author should have been more careful with their choice of words.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#59

Post by monsieurbanana »

Micrococonut wrote: post #40
kevas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why do you think you're underpaid? Why do you feel you should be making more. The market has said that you're currently worth/getting paid X. So... why think you're Y?

Why would you assume that what he is being paid is his current market value? It's entirely possible that he is being paid well under his market value, thus creating feelings of being underpaid.

He said "actually I think most devs in my country are underpaid".

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#60

Post by gehwartzen »

eumenides1 wrote: post #11

“In my experience young people, especially the post-90s generation, are reluctant to work overtime – they are more self-centered,” says labour rights expert Li Jupeng, one of many who have observed some millennials challenging the 996 concept. self-centered is a funny word. It implies selfish, but is it really selfish if it's self-preservation?

OVER-time. As in additional time over what was agreed in the original employee-employer relationship. There is nothing selfish here except maybe on the part of the companies that expect overtime out of their employees.
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