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"50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

economist.com

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Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#51

Post by mynameishere »

gojomo wrote: post #5

What gives these foreigners the right to come over here and make American jobs? That leaves fewer jobs for native-born Americans to make!

That's a lot of points for an intensely cliched piece of sarcasm.

Here's a clue: You're an artist with real ambition, so where do you go? Paris or New York. On arrival you notice the huge percentage of aspiring artists who are imports from all around the world. What does this mean?

1. Paris and New York are incapable of art and depend on foreigners.

2. Paris and New York have developed art scenes of such strength that they are known world-wide as the places to go if you have ambition.

#2, obviously. Well, not obvious if you're making cheap political shots, but whatever. SV is known all over the world as the destination for ambitious entrepeneurs and that has mathemetical ramifications of no polical meaning.

Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#52

Post by mahmud »

IdeaHamster wrote: post #37

Maybe it's time to rerun this poll: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=688053

169 out of 531 total were first-generation, foreign born immigrants (much like myself :-)

That makes it 32% of all HNers who bothered to vote.

If you count those whose parents are immigrants, it jumps up to 52%.

Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#53

Post by hackerdude »

timr wrote: post #38
gojomo wrote: post #5

What gives these foreigners the right to come over here and make American jobs? That leaves fewer jobs for native-born Americans to make!

Yeah, that's funny and all...but I'm rather embarrassed for HN's analytical skills right now. Fifty percent of firm founders are foreign-born you say? OK. What percentage of valley residents are foreign-born? Or, hey...what percentage of foreign-born residents outside the valley start businesses. Without answers to these questions, the 50% stat is just a sound-bite.

As far as I can tell, the report doesn’t say 50% of founders are foreign-born. Rather, it says (middle of page six) that 50% of tech companies have at least one foreign-born founder. That’s very different. To use a very simple example, if you had 100 startups, each with three founders, 50 of which had 3 native-born founders and 50 of which had 1 foreign-born and 2 native-born founders, you’d have 50% of companies with a foreign-born founder, but only 17% of the founders would be foreign-born.

The question that needs to be answered is: do immigrant technology workers found technology startups at a higher or lower rate than native-born technology workers? Surprisingly, I’ve never seen that question addressed. I’ve seen articles that imply an answer, but once I dig a bit it always seems that the data doesn’t actually justify the implied conclusion.

Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#54

Post by rubashov »

jseliger wrote: post #41
wheels wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 1921 to 1965 immigration was practically nothing. Uhm, what? Perhaps in raw numbers, but the world wars drove vast numbers of european intellectuals to the US.

I was just going to say almost exactly this: it might be worth reading Richard Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb , in which he points out how many of the essential scientists and engineers working in aspects of the Manhattan Project were Europeans. Some of the most essential figures, like Leo Szliard (sp?), were.

I dare say a handful of physicists and chemists did not have major bearing on the US economy, after their accomplishment of needlessly incinerating a bunch of japanese.

Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#55

Post by timr »

hackerdude wrote: post #53
timr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's funny and all...but I'm rather embarrassed for HN's analytical skills right now. Fifty percent of firm founders are foreign-born you say? OK. What percentage of valley residents are foreign-born? Or, hey...what percentage of foreign-born residents outside the valley start businesses. Without answers to these questions, the 50% stat is just a sound-bite.

As far as I can tell, the report doesn’t say 50% of founders are foreign-born. Rather, it says (middle of page six) that 50% of tech companies have at least one foreign-born founder. That’s very different. To use a very simple example, if you had 100 startups, each with three founders, 50 of which had 3 native-born founders and 50 of which had 1 foreign-born and 2 native-born founders, you’d have 50% of companies wit…

Good point. I hadn't noticed that -- it makes the argument even weaker.

Nearly everyone in this thread is taking for granted that foreign workers are more entrepreneurial, and using this piece as some sort of external validation of that view. But the article is just regurgitating a sound-bite. Without context, there's no reason to believe that the cited statistic implies a meaningful conclusion.

Re: "50% of firm founders [in Silicon Valley] are foreign born"

#56

Post by Watermelon »

wheels wrote: post #39
rubashov wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not especially surprising, nor damning of american-borns I disagree. I wouldn't be sanguine about it. Previous major waves of technical innovation were lead by well established Americans. Something has changed. A plausible hypothesis (not that I'm convinced) is that high immigration has driven down wages in technical professions. So native born Americans are less inclined to bother. I think it's important to point…

From 1921 to 1965 immigration was practically nothing. Uhm, what? Perhaps in raw numbers, but the world wars drove vast numbers of european intellectuals to the US.

He's "merely" forgetting that von Neumann, von Karman, and Andy Grove all came from Hungary.
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