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I am leaving llvm

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Re: I am leaving llvm

#51

Post by rhapsodic »

peterashford wrote: post #49
rhapsodic wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you think about people who say, I'm a woman, and/or I'm black, and/or I'm gay, and/or I'm trans, and/or I'm disabled, and/or I have a mental illness. I also just want to sit heads-down and code next to you and not think about what I "am", but unfortunately -- perhaps, invisibly to you -- people are doing things which prevent me from being able to do that. A code of conduct moves us a bit closer towards "equa…

So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it?

> So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it?

This is a typical SJW non-argument, built atop a non-sequitur. Implying that I'm happy that people get discriminated against, while offering no logic to back it up. I disagree with you, therefore I am a bad person with bad motives. And that's what's driving this whole SJW-CoC movement.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#52

Post by guitarbill »

pasabagi wrote: post #40
guitarbill wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so this guy is standing up against what he sees as discrimination, and the argument is “ignore him, it’s not the bad kind of discrimination”?

Well, it really just shows a pernicious, probably purposeful misunderstanding of discrimination. Some discrimination is good. Children shouldn't be able to drive cars. Blind people shouldn't be allowed to fly planes. Adults are not allowed to compete in junior boxing leagues. Most people know this. Most people can also distinguish between this, and the systematic violence, physical and social, that society conducts a…

Got it. So the good discrimination, we call those laws, and they’re decided by people who have extensive training on how to critially consider things with due process and being able to appeal.

But being a judge and having due process sounds like work. Guess I’ll write a CoC instead! /s

Re: I am leaving llvm

#53

Post by Larrikin »

badsectoracula wrote: post #26
chickenfries wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…

I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.

Pretending that racism and sexism don't exist and never existed is a nonsensical stance to take and is usually a stance taken by someone who feels that they never have to worry about them. Programs like AA exist because it still is a problem. There are still a lot of people in power with those disgusting ideas. When it was argued that voting rights act was antiquated because racism was no longer a major issue, North Carolina's government went and gerrymandered their state to group black people together and give them less power[1]

Programs like that are out reach to help people that have been looked over or would have been discriminated against out right in the past. They're there to help people, not to punish anyone.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/north-c...

Re: I am leaving llvm

#54

Post by peterashford »

Yetanfou wrote: post #34
GiorgioG wrote: post #6

These social justice warriors may seem well-meaning, but ultimately they are parasites. Their mission is never-ending and ultimately they overreach and this is the result. I just want to work with smart people. I don't care what gender they associate themselves with, what color they are, whether there's an equal distribution of any of these characteristics in my department. I just want to do my job and learn from sma…

While I don't care about people's race, skin colour, sexual orientation, 'gender', religion, political affiliation, book preference or shoe size... ...I most emphatically do care about them not bringing up any of these characteristics in any context where they see fit. Just like a country with freedom of religion should support freedom from religion the same goes for freedom from politics, 'gender' issues, race discu…

This wasn't about anyone being asked to do anything at all, it was about an organisation supporting minorities

Re: I am leaving llvm

#55

Post by ropeadopepope »

peterashford wrote: post #45
cucumberferity wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is something that happened in 1864 or 1964 going to prevent you from identifying a good engineer in front of you?

Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious

What's not so obvious is why that's a bad thing. Considering the fact that millions (possibly billions at this point) have been spent recruiting non-whites and non-males in tech, there's no lack of equality of opportunity here.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#56

Post by morvita »

malvosenior wrote: post #43
morvita wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that many white men come from a background where, for any number of reasons, they are not afforded the same opportunities as, say, a white boy from Cupertino, they are still given opportunities and privilege because they were lucky enough to be born a white man. I know this first-hand because I grew up in a rural farming community in Vermont that was more than 95% white and poverty-stricken. Of cours…

Were you part of the poverty stricken population? My experience has been poor white people are not accepted by our professional community.

No, my mother was a teacher and my father a manager at the local hospital. So while we weren't rich, we were definitely not poverty stricken either.

I cannot speak much to the experience of poor white people in the tech community, but, at least anecdotally, I know of two other people I went to high school with who also went into tech. One is still in the industry as far as I know and the other left it a few years ago. (For reference, I am in my early 30s)

Re: I am leaving llvm

#57

Post by [deleted] »

peterashford wrote: post #46
malvosenior wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also not obvious or noticeable from a position of privilege: many, many white men have no opportunities or privilege and thus are discriminated against for simply being the same race and gender as a very thin slice of upperclass society.

I'm a white guy who was born into a poor, solo parent family situation. I still had privilege due to my colour. Example: no-one ever looked at me and wondered whether I was going to steal something from their shop just on the basis of my skin colour. When I went to school, no-one discouraged me from high-level achievement or assumed that I should do sports based on my colour (and where I come from, this definitely ha…

[deleted]

Re: I am leaving llvm

#58

Post by peterashford »

rhapsodic wrote: post #51
peterashford wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it?

> So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it? This is a typical SJW non-argument, built atop a non-sequitur. Implying that I'm happy that people get discriminated against, while offering no logic to back it up. I disagree with you, therefore I am a bad person with bad motives. And that's what's driving this whole SJW-CoC movement.

The post you were responding to asked "what if I am being discriminated against? what do you say to me?" You respond that you find them bossy and insufferable. Unless those observations are inaccurate I struggle to see how you take issue with the question I asked. It certainly sounds from your own words that you do not care about people being discriminated against.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#59

Post by Larrikin »

cucumberferity wrote: post #37
felipellrocha wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The point of these policies is that we might be missing some fucking amazing talent and not know just because of historical reasons.

Is something that happened in 1864 or 1964 going to prevent you from identifying a good engineer in front of you?

Laws were passed then, that doesn't mean culture changed over night. Someone born around 1964 is right around the age of parents in their prime development years. Did your parents have no effect on your ability to become educated that put you on track to become a developer?

Re: I am leaving llvm

#60

Post by [deleted] »

peterashford wrote: post #41

Seriously? LLVM supporting minorities means that you have to leave? I cannot fathom how trying to be inclusive should matter to anyone - it does not diminish you in any way to offer a hand up to others. I work in games. I have never been to GDC or PAX while I have seen many women get funding to go there on the basis of being a female in games. That isn't an attack on me personally - it's an attempt to work against hi…

[deleted]
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