It's sad to hear this when it's totally unnecessary. Hear disease has been a solved problem for decades. Just compare the rates of disease for vegans with the general population.
What are the rates?
Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
51–60 of 274 posts
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#5266% of 115 specialists polled did not refuse a difficult operation. 33% thought about how it would impact their statistics, or put more generously, thought hard about the probability of the patient surviving presumably quite serious surgery. Yes mortality is a blunt statistic for a surgeon, but perhaps giving people pause for thought about the odds of success is no bad thing. Contra point: would you rather not know h…
Do not Doctors Surgeons disclose the potential errors and things that might go wrong in the US? I have had several ops in the last 18 months in the UK and they always go though what can go wrong and tell you the odds.
There's generally a consent process but the patient is often in no position to decline or comprehend what they're signing. In the case of heart surgery, or even a catheterization procedure, they may not be conscious to consent.
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#53They need to add a difficulty correlated metric to the statistics. Maybe BMI and age? I am sure IVF clinics wouldn't offer the procedure to anyone over 35 if the rather detailed statistics they are required to report didn't also include the patient's age.
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#54It's Goodhart's Law in action, this time with deadly consequences: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."[a] [a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
Low mortality is a good damned measure. I don't want to be operated on some yahoo surgeon who unconditionally operates regardless of risk and has a high mortality track record as a result.
When the option is "or die" I think you'd change your tune.
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#55It was not heart surgery, but after being diagnosed with lung cancer, my mother had one of her lungs removed by a surgeon who assured us he'd be able to get all the cancer. She had a miserable, painful recovery that I would not wish on anybody. Within a week or two of her recovering to the point where she could walk short distances, the cancer was found in her other lung and went on to kill her within a few more mont…
I guess I'm just shocked that the surgeon could offer that level of assurance about something like that.
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#56It's sad to hear this when it's totally unnecessary. Hear disease has been a solved problem for decades. Just compare the rates of disease for vegans with the general population.
What are the rates?
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#57Can we get a (2016) on the thread title?
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#58It's sad to hear this when it's totally unnecessary. Hear disease has been a solved problem for decades. Just compare the rates of disease for vegans with the general population.
> Just compare the rates of disease for vegans with the general population.
"Disease" is such a broad category that it's sort of meaningless here.
Maybe veganism is healthier than an animal diet, but the degree of its impact can only be stated only after removing the many other environmental factors that might be contributing to lower disease rates among vegans, including income and location.
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#59it's been said a few times on /r/medicine, surgeons have their lawyer in mind when operating, they're skilled, but they first avoid anything that could damage their own life irreversably. Of course to an extent this goal aligns with the patient, but not always, and a bit sad on the ideal side.
Can someone really sue their surgeon in the US?
Re: Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor mortality ratings
#60Check out the comments over on /r/medicine and you will likely be horrified. It is career over everything. There was even a thread this week about how you should NEVER correct someone above you (med students should never correct a resident and a resident should never correct an attending). That mentality is terrible for everyone and every thing, except the physicians' careers. I don't know if we need to select for be…
Yes, the system is horrendous and broken. There should be complete oversight and full transparency for self-regulation purposes, which includes ongoing learning and education, and get lawyers involved once the self-regulating is found to be inadequate - such as a surgeon who repeatedly makes the same mistakes and hasn't bothered to learn or care to improve their skills, or prevented from continuing. From my own strug…
This is one thing that still amazes me to this day.
It's like doctor's stop thinking after they get their degree.
Whenever I've visited a doc within the past few years I have noticed that instead of actually getting to know someone as a patient, many act as if they are a quick reference book.
This is especially horrifying when you consider that there is a non-trivial portion of the population that exist outside of the medical literature.
Every one of the best Doctors I've ever had has ALWAYS been a researcher at heart. They observe, take notes, treat what they can now, and come back later and can clue me in on the latest research they've come across.
Nowadays, I'm usually making Doctors aware of advancements in their field... Scary stuff.