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ClojureScript beginners' home page

clojure-script.org

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Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#51

Post by cutler »

holtalanm wrote: post #13

I've been learning Clojure and ClojureScript in my spare time. I can honestly say that one thing that would make adoption a lot more wide-spread is a better way to include NPM modules in the project. I know that there is a new feature for it, but the documentation was a little cryptic. Ended up just adding some CLJSJS dependencies to my project and giving up on using the NPM module I _really_ wanted to use. In the en…

I really had high hopes for Clojurescript but I tried many times to get my front-end finished in Reagent but the documentation was useless. In the end I turned to React and, with the help of a good, detailed video tutorial, I had it finished in a week. Ecosystem really matters and I find that Clojurescript, despite its innovations, is still too bits and pieces when it comes to just getting stuff done. I never thought I'd give-up on Clojurescript but eventually I did.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#52

Post by pjmlp »

holtalanm wrote: post #12
Sawamara wrote: post #10

I could not get leiningen to install under Win10 a week ago, was quite a sobering experience. Some site that was linked to download from got a 404, then I got directed towards some bat script, which complained about HTTPS certification issues (lol)? Took less than 5 minutes under a linux server though, so thats something, I guess. But still, its kinda mind-blowing how much Win users are ignored.

i really don't see the point of developing anything java-related on windows. then again, I'm probably just being oblivious.

Let me put it this way, Java is OS agnostic and my laptop just works.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#53

Post by swannodette »

cutler wrote: post #49
swannodette wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead developer of ClojureScript here. Agreed, we take Windows support quite seriously.

David, I think the Clojurescript Quick Start guide ( https://clojurescript.org/guides/quick-start ) is a wasted opportunity. I don't think new users want to wade through a page full of compiler flags when Leiningen + template is the default for most of the Clojure(script) community. This merely adds to the impression that Clojure(script) is for experts.

New users (and experts as well) do not find Leinginen and templates easy to use. The response to the Quick Start has been overwhelmingly positive from new and experienced users.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#54

Post by swannodette »

Sawamara wrote: post #45
swannodette wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead developer of ClojureScript here. Agreed, we take Windows support quite seriously.

Well, then I can only say this: ClojureScript is "competing" for developer attention with Purescript, Bucklescript, and lately, ReasonML. Ease of installation on windows is one factor that will matter to many users.

We don't really compete with PureScript, BuckleScript, ReasonML or even Elm and this is heavily reflected in our surveys. The only real competition at this point is Scala/Scala.js or full stack JavaScript.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#55

Post by fnordsensei »

jiyinyiyong wrote: post #37
bgorman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would highly advise newcomers to CLJS to use lein cljsbuild, reagent, and the figwheel template. It is by far the most popular tooling for CLJS - although recently shadow-cljs folks have been quite loud.

I'm definitely one of shadow-cljs folks. We are trying to shorten the steps and paths people coming from JavaScript world to ClojureScript. Figwheel is a great tool, just not a perfect one to people with JavaScript background.

Could you elaborate a little bit on how figwheel is challenging for people with JS background and how shadow-cljs differs?

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#56

Post by zck »

jiyinyiyong wrote: post #6
kimi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Consider also that for someone who does not know anything about Clojure, it looks alien enough.

Does the first paragraph the page help? I was expecting this paragraph telling people what ClojureScript is. > Clojure is a dialect of the Lisp programming language. Clojure is a general-purpose programming language with an emphasis on functional programming. ClojureScript is a compiler for Clojure that targets JavaScript.

Who's your target market for the front page? If it's people who don't know what Clojurescript is, why confuse them with hundreds of characters of incomprehensible code, with no understanding of why it's there or what it does?

On the other hand, if it's people who are familiar with Clojurescript...also why is it there? It's given no motivation on the page, and gets in the way of people finding what they're looking for.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#57

Post by Sawamara »

swannodette wrote: post #54
Sawamara wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then I can only say this: ClojureScript is "competing" for developer attention with Purescript, Bucklescript, and lately, ReasonML. Ease of installation on windows is one factor that will matter to many users.

We don't really compete with PureScript, BuckleScript, ReasonML or even Elm and this is heavily reflected in our surveys. The only real competition at this point is Scala/Scala.js or full stack JavaScript.

Ooh, I did not know this. Thank you for the clarification!

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#58

Post by fnordsensei »

swannodette wrote: post #53
cutler wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David, I think the Clojurescript Quick Start guide ( https://clojurescript.org/guides/quick-start ) is a wasted opportunity. I don't think new users want to wade through a page full of compiler flags when Leiningen + template is the default for most of the Clojure(script) community. This merely adds to the impression that Clojure(script) is for experts.

New users (and experts as well) do not find Leinginen and templates easy to use. The response to the Quick Start has been overwhelmingly positive from new and experienced users.

I personally love the work that you've done in this area recently. I do have the feeling that users are still exposed to quite a bit of plumbing, as they might be used to style commands from elsewhere ("npm install nodemon" or what-have-you).

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#59

Post by m__ »

Sawamara wrote: post #10

I could not get leiningen to install under Win10 a week ago, was quite a sobering experience. Some site that was linked to download from got a 404, then I got directed towards some bat script, which complained about HTTPS certification issues (lol)? Took less than 5 minutes under a linux server though, so thats something, I guess. But still, its kinda mind-blowing how much Win users are ignored.

It‘s a bug in the lein.bat install script. You can fix it by downloading lein.bat and applying the diff in the first comment here: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/2412
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