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Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

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Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#51

Post by tyingq »

lsh wrote: post #49
tyingq wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. But, it's also pretty surreal for those of us that worked through the anti-linux Microsoft of the 90's. Windows subsystem for Linux, and initiatives like this are a real confirmation that MS finally "gets it". Right tool for the right job. Good for them. It's also a big swing for me in that I trust MS more than Google now to do the right thing. I'd have thought that impossible a couple of decades ago.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

The corporate version of Windows 10 is different, which is where my experience lies. Good observation though.

At a higher level, Gates seems more credible than Larry or Sergey to me. Totally biased by my history, but I'm pretty strong on that point. Gates mellowed out and seems more broadly interested in "greater good".

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#52

Post by progval »

> Windows IoT runs on microprocessor units (MPUs) which have at least 100x the power of the MCU.

> MediaTek is producing the first set of these new MCUs. These are low-powered, single-core ARM-A7 systems that run at 500MHz

Er... what kind of hardware is Windows IoT supposed to run on?

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#53

Post by PaulHoule »

tyingq wrote: post #41
castle-bravo wrote: post #10

Am I paraphrasing this correctly: > Microsoft-branded ARM microcontrollers running an embedded linux distribution. Microsoft rolls out security updates over Azure to reduce the risk of the device becoming part of a botnet. It sounds great.

It does. But, it's also pretty surreal for those of us that worked through the anti-linux Microsoft of the 90's. Windows subsystem for Linux, and initiatives like this are a real confirmation that MS finally "gets it". Right tool for the right job. Good for them. It's also a big swing for me in that I trust MS more than Google now to do the right thing. I'd have thought that impossible a couple of decades ago.

Linux is probably a more compact OS for IoT than Windows, but it is still pretty bloated.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#54

Post by joezydeco »

kbenson wrote: post #42
joezydeco wrote: post #35

After seeing this I think the Amazon AWS/FreeRTOS combo is looking like the better architecture for a node solution. FreeRTOS can run on lowly M3s at 120Mhz, like the LPC2478. A 500MHz A7 part is way too much silicon for an IoT node. How much external SDRAM and Flash are connected to that MediaTek core?

> After seeing this I think the Amazon AWS/FreeRTOS combo is looking like the better architecture for a node solution. FreeRTOS can run on lowly M3s at 120Mhz, like the LPC2478 Is that supposed to imply linux can't? Or that linux plus a GNU subsystem can't? I've personally run it on a lot lower end hardware than that seems to be.

Oh, it can. I've run ucLinux (MMU-less Linux) on an LPC1788 (Cortex-M3) and it works...okay. Making dynamic libraries work correctly on it is a pain in the ass. It just wasn't worth it at the end and the O/S hogged up most of the processor, RAM, and Flash.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#55

Post by dpeckett »

kbenson wrote: post #42
joezydeco wrote: post #35

After seeing this I think the Amazon AWS/FreeRTOS combo is looking like the better architecture for a node solution. FreeRTOS can run on lowly M3s at 120Mhz, like the LPC2478. A 500MHz A7 part is way too much silicon for an IoT node. How much external SDRAM and Flash are connected to that MediaTek core?

> After seeing this I think the Amazon AWS/FreeRTOS combo is looking like the better architecture for a node solution. FreeRTOS can run on lowly M3s at 120Mhz, like the LPC2478 Is that supposed to imply linux can't? Or that linux plus a GNU subsystem can't? I've personally run it on a lot lower end hardware than that seems to be.

The Cortex M series is prolific but lacks a proper memory management unit which makes running Linux an iffy business. FreeRTOS is by far the most dominant player in this space.

Different markets really, sounds like Microsoft is targeting items like internet connected cameras (think Mirai endpoints). Where as Amazon is targeting low power prolific devices, eg. IoT buttons.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#56

Post by lsh »

tyingq wrote: post #51
lsh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

The corporate version of Windows 10 is different, which is where my experience lies. Good observation though. At a higher level, Gates seems more credible than Larry or Sergey to me. Totally biased by my history, but I'm pretty strong on that point. Gates mellowed out and seems more broadly interested in "greater good".

That's interesting! I had a hell of a time turning off all the nasty intrusive bits for my friends and parents. I should take a look at this version.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#57

Post by lsh »

tyingq wrote: post #51
lsh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

The corporate version of Windows 10 is different, which is where my experience lies. Good observation though. At a higher level, Gates seems more credible than Larry or Sergey to me. Totally biased by my history, but I'm pretty strong on that point. Gates mellowed out and seems more broadly interested in "greater good".

Yeah, for some reason I'm ambivalent about Gates and always have been. Microsoft hasn't been run by him in a long long time though.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#58

Post by CrazyCatDog »

lsh wrote: post #49
tyingq wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. But, it's also pretty surreal for those of us that worked through the anti-linux Microsoft of the 90's. Windows subsystem for Linux, and initiatives like this are a real confirmation that MS finally "gets it". Right tool for the right job. Good for them. It's also a big swing for me in that I trust MS more than Google now to do the right thing. I'd have thought that impossible a couple of decades ago.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

Company histories asside, someone had to develop a hardened kernel--and they had to be big enough that the client could sue in the event of a problem. Redhat comes to mind, but I honestly can't think of a better company than MSFT to own this (and the associated libility).

It makes terrific financial sense for them to take ownership, liability (and revenues) for a product class their native technology can't compete in.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#59

Post by tyingq »

lsh wrote: post #56
tyingq wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corporate version of Windows 10 is different, which is where my experience lies. Good observation though. At a higher level, Gates seems more credible than Larry or Sergey to me. Totally biased by my history, but I'm pretty strong on that point. Gates mellowed out and seems more broadly interested in "greater good".

That's interesting! I had a hell of a time turning off all the nasty intrusive bits for my friends and parents. I should take a look at this version.

Yeah, personally, I think Windows for home users is a dying market. My wife and kids use either ChromeOS or OSX. Everything has moved to the web for younger people. Fat client apps are increasingly the exception. Very niche...like "I need Adobe tools, Photoshop, etc".

Office 365 is accelerating that. No need for local Word, PowerPoint, Excel, etc.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#60

Post by squarefoot »

JudasGoat wrote: post #3

Someone has been predicting that Microsoft would in the future produce their own Linux Distro on Slashdot for the last 5 years. I remember thinking it sounded impossible for for the first few years. Seems prophetic now.

Rather than their Linux distro I think they will do what Google did with Android, that is, making their ecosystem run under the Linux kernel (plus MS services) so that they will save a huge load of money by not having to maintain their own kernel. Think about not having to write drivers for every piece of hardware that gets produced; they would probably just audit and test the code to certify the driver as fully compatible.

This may seem good, but my paranoid half (make it 9/10) thinks they could "hijack" the Linux user base by releasing software certified as Linux compatible that runs only under their Linux, and by being platinum members of the Linux Foundation they could be entitled to say that their Linux is the only true one.

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