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The Artificial Intelligentsia

thebaffler.com

51–60 of 95 posts

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> idiotic article about the brain not processing information How about the brain creates information from constant interaction with the world based on the kinds of bodies we have and our needs/wants? This information doesn't exist as information until the brain creates it. Information is the product of minds. It doesn't exist in the world on it's own to be processed. As such, the brain is something other than a compu…

"Not computable" is itself a strong claim that's never been proven. What is true is that nobody has done it yet. The process is a mystery in the sense that it's not understood, which means that we don't know if it's computable or not.

The argument at the moment seems to be "define a problem that a computer can't do that a human brain can"... "I can't because expressing that problem is beyond the machinery I have developed for cognition, and it may always be".

What is certain is that there are uncomputable problems, but are any of the problems that humans solve in order to speak, act, socialise uncomputable? Some people think that because they are solved within the physical universe then they must be computable but that implies that the physical universe can be simulated (in principle) by a universal turing machine, since we can express problems (using the machinary of the universe) that a universal turing machine can't do then there is a gap that permits the possibility that there may be some process which is not simulatable by a universal turing machine.

In my belief free will/autonomy/initaitive/creativity are expressions of that process, but belief is not an argument.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#52
post #17

Offtopic, but I have a really difficult time reading articles like this. I don’t know if this reflects a problem with the style or my ability to focus, but I find it really annoying: > “SANDHOGS,” THEY CALLED THE LABORERS who built the tunnels leading into New York’s Penn Station at the beginning of the last century. Work distorted their humanity, sometimes literally. Resurfacing at the end of each day from their bur…

It's not the style-- it's just not good writing, but it's trying so hard to be. It's the kind of thing that would show up in a college writing workshop and hopefully get workshopped into something more intelligible. As they say, "Show, don't tell." The passage describes a lot but not in a way that helps you actually visualize any of it, thus it's really hard to follow.

Right, any individual sentence is fine and the idea is probably usable, yet it's not clear how each statement relates to those that came before it.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#53

I found the author to be slightly irritating on several occasions, dropping veiled references to Valleywag-style anti Silicon Valley memes, and then I got to the part where he regurgitates that idiotic article about the brain not processing information, and there being something magical about human brains that cannot be simulated [0]. He is right about his claim of having no right to be called a “director of research…

The article you reference makes the same mistake as Searles Chinese room argument. It somehow assumes there is something magical about the human mind.

I had a brief argument with Robert Epstein (the author of that article) because I find the argument that humans don't actually store information to be quite misleadning and missing the point.

The most obvious mistake is this:

"We don’t store words or the rules that tell us how to manipulate them. We don’t create representations of visual stimuli, store them in a short-term memory buffer, and then transfer the representation into a long-term memory device. We don’t retrieve information or images or words from memory registers. Computers do all of these things, but organisms do not."

This is both true and false. It's true we don't do that like a computer but its wrong to claim that computers fundamentally do that too.

That happens several layers of abstraction up and so a computer fundamentally doesn't actually store an image or a word either it manipulates atoms and turns circuits on and off and several layers of abstraction up it gets translated into meaning first by machines then by humans.

Anyone who have a hard time believing machines can become sentient should first ask themselves why they have a harder time believing that than accepting that dumb immaterial matter somehow have become the pattern recognizing feedback loops that are us.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#54
post #17

Offtopic, but I have a really difficult time reading articles like this. I don’t know if this reflects a problem with the style or my ability to focus, but I find it really annoying: > “SANDHOGS,” THEY CALLED THE LABORERS who built the tunnels leading into New York’s Penn Station at the beginning of the last century. Work distorted their humanity, sometimes literally. Resurfacing at the end of each day from their bur…

Just imagine ... that some day in the future journalism will be AI based, and will generate entire articles tailored to your viewing habits based on extensive psych profiling and AB testing to maximize clicks and screen time! The content need not be true, but at least everyone will be happy with their preferred writing styles.... http://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/

That actually sounds quite appealing to me. In recent years I noticed that the writing style of a book had a much bigger part in my ability to derive value from it than its content.

If I could read fiction that is written exactly for me I would love it. And as for "non-fiction", I reference check any particularly interesting claim anyway, so I'd be happy to try and use the AI for that too. The way I see it, reading is much more about exercising the brain in thinking about new things than about learning new facts.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#55
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. The article seemed like a pretty good riff on the Great Gatsby and the dark side of Silicon Valley culture. The writing is promising.

He doesn't present an honest understanding of his own field, or the field of neuroscience, or the ongoing developments in the technology surrounding his own business, or its implications. Even without extrapolating from the pattern recognition tools we have today, whole classes and ranges of jobs can be fully or partially eliminated. Here is what he says about the state of AI: > Even the most eye-catching successes c…

I believe there is an alternate reading you may be missing. Viewed in a different light the example of Go you cite is not that different from John Henry vs. the steam engine. The history of industrialization is the replacement of humans by machines for specific tasks. People tend to oversell current AI technology as somehow deviating from that long path. It's a fair point to make.

For me the interesting theme was the exploration of the character and dubious success of the mysterious Jim, who is using his connections to ride a wave of poorly understood and possibly malevolent technology to a grand house in the country and membership in the upper classes--almost like flotsam on the rising tide of economic progress. There's a lot of Gatsby in there and some hints of Graham Greene's quiet American as well. Just as you can argue that AI the technology is part and parcel of industrialization, its social effects recall recurring conflicts in American society and culture that authors like Fitzgerald have been exploring for 150 years.

As for other critiques of the style from the Hackerati I would just say yes, it seems like the work of a young writer. Good writing is hard to achieve and it's typically preceded by a lot of bad writing. To paraphrase Senator Palpatine, we will watch his career with great interest.

Fixed: typo/it really is hard to write well

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't present an honest understanding of his own field, or the field of neuroscience, or the ongoing developments in the technology surrounding his own business, or its implications. Even without extrapolating from the pattern recognition tools we have today, whole classes and ranges of jobs can be fully or partially eliminated. Here is what he says about the state of AI: > Even the most eye-catching successes c…

Where is the AI that can fold laundry (clothes, linen, towels)? Do laundry (sort, pre-treat, load, unload, clean lint filter)? Do dishes (clear table, scrape food into compost or trash as appropriate, separate to recycling as appropriate, load, unload, put up)? Keep a lawn (mow, edge, trim hedges, move trimmings to compost, trim trees)? Put up Legos after a 5 year old? Pick up around the house and tell you where it p…

This is the wrong way to think about it to be frank. Animals can do things humans can't that doesn't mean that humans can't come up with ways to make what those animals can obsolete. Humans don't need wings to fly, we don't need to be able to run faster than a leopard to be able to move faster than a leopard.

AI will not always represent itself in a one to one relationship with humans to be able to compete or outcompete us. Just as an example a lot of things have become digitalized which have rendered many elements that used to exist in physical form into digital form, music is a good example of that.

So sure there are areas that machines aren't as good at yet because they haven't practiced it enough but it's literally just a matter of training and improving not some fundamental problem that can't be solved.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#57

Excellent Sunday morning long read! Some of PreData's recent "insights": "China Trade War Fears Still Running High" "Mall Blaze Sparks Outrage Across Russia" In short, nothing that couldn't be revealed from the briefest skim of headlines from tomorrow morning's WSJ.com. One can stay better informed leaving a Bloomberg TicToc (which is partially machine generated) tab open all day. My takeaway is that the world of the…

I enjoyed the article as well (see my comments above). But I would debate your takeaway. The money quote is in the last sentence:

> Three months later, Predata secured a second round of venture capital funding.

People like Jim Shinn will always find a way. At least that's the argument the author seems to be making.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#58
post #37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking forward to the day when we have a computer that passes the Turing test but comments like yours still show up.

Scott Aaronson: “So this is about the state of the art in terms of man-machine repartee. It seems one actually needs to revise the Turing Test to say that if we want to verify intelligence in a computer, then we need some minimal level of intelligence in the human interrogator.” https://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec4.html

That’s just the anthropic principle restated.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#59
post #9

Faced with the impossibility of determining whether a technology is intelligent or not—since we don’t know what intelligence is—Silicon Valley’s funders are left instead to judge the merit of a new idea in AI according to the perceived intelligence of its developers. What did they study? Where did they go to school? These are the questions that matter This is a perfect summary of the VC situation today. Too much mone…

From all I've been able to see, that statement

"... judge the merit of a new idea in AI according to the perceived intelligence of its developers."

about information technology VCs and AI is just totally wrong: I don't believe VCs do that. Why? Generally, from 50,000 feet up, it's too far from the norms of the accounting, banking, and investing communities respected by the limited partners of the VCs. Uh, the limited partners (LPs) are where the VCs get nearly all the money they invest, and the limited partners are conservative people, managers of pension funds, university endowments, etc. Not only do the VCs not do that, the LPs won't let the VCs do that!

Instead, about the shortest believable view I can see is, VCs look for traction that is significant and growing rapidly in a market large enough to permit a company worth $1+ billion in a few years.

The VCs view of traction is a weakening of the usual measures the accounting, banking, and investing communities use and respect of audited revenue and earnings.

So, sure, the best form of traction will be earnings, then next best, revenue, next best lots of interested customers, e.g., advertisers willing to pay for eyeballs, then last best, just lots of eyeballs. In these norms, intelligence, brilliance, AI, technology, etc. are mostly publicity points, window dressing, the wrapping paper on a birthday gift, and with a dime won't cover a 10 cent cup of coffee.

In a sense, the VCs have a good point, more from insight into humans and the real world than anything in a pitch deck: (1) With technology, it's too easy to push totally meaningless, useless BS. (2) Carefully studying core, deep, difficult technology is just too darned difficult to be practical for the VCs.

Or the investors believe in a Markov assumption: The future of the business and the technology from the past are conditionally independent given the current traction, its rate of growth, and the size of the market. To be clear, this Markov assumption does not say that the technology and the future of the company are independent.

The stories in the OP about the company Predata, to abbreviate "predictions from data", are good: The company was floundering around with guesses about what would work, e.g., for predicting terrorist attacks, that were like something from smoking funny stuff.

But here is one big place the VCs and technology are going wrong: We do have some terrific examples of how to do well. The examples are from the past 70+ years of the unique world class, all-time, unchallenged grand champion of using advanced, even original, technology for important practical results -- the US DoD.

A grand example is GPS. GPS was by the USAF, but it was a refinement of an earlier system by the US Navy, for navigation for the missile firing submarines and started at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory JHU/APL. At one time I worked in the group that did the original work and heard the stories. A key point: The original proposal was by some physicists and almost just on the back of an envelope. Soon the project was approved and pushed forward with a lot of effort. Then, presto, bingo, it all worked just as predicted on the back of the envelope. E.g., a test receiver on the roof navigated its position within one foot, plenty accurate enough for the US Navy.

So, net, for project selection and funding, here is the shocking, surprising, point that the VCs miss: Really, given the back of the envelope work, the rest was relatively routine and low risk.

And the past 70+ years of the US DoD is awash in comparable examples.

In blunt terms, the US DoD has a fantastically high batting average on far out projects evaluated just on paper. Given good evaluations of the work just on paper, the rest is relatively routine and low risk.

Well, that project funding technique does not fully solve the problem of the VCs: The VCs also need to know that the resulting product will have big success in the market. But for that there is an okay approach: The dream product would be one pill taken once, cheap, safe, effective, to cure any cancer. In that case, the technology is so good for such an important practical problem in such a large market that there's no question about making the $1+ billion. So, from this hypothetical lesson, net, need the technology to be the first good or a much better solution, a "must have", for a really pressing problem in a big market. So, right, this filter would reject Facebook, Snap, and more. So, right, need to start with a really big problem where with new technology, say, as in the US DoD examples, can get a "must have" solution for a really big problem, and Facebook and SNAP are not such problems. Just what are such problems? That's part of the challenge. But with current VCs, come up with such a problem and a solution on paper, with brilliant founders, with AI, etc., then still will need more than a time to cover a 10 cent cup of coffee. Again, to get VCs up on their hind legs, bring then good data on traction, significant and growing rapidly in a large market; if the secret sauce technology helps, fine; brilliant founders, fine; even if there is no technology, fine; in all cases, what really matters is the traction.

Re: The Artificial Intelligentsia

#60
A thought: Don't let some of the (valid) criticism alone dissuade you from reading this.

IMO the author makes some very valid points about fuzzy products and endpoints in the current AI/data/ML/magic craze. These are under-articulated elsewhere, because, well hey there's a lot of money flowing! Who wants to be a killjoy and not "get it" (just like in 1999 ;)?

Two more specific points: 1. The descriptions of the CEO are eerily familiar to me. This guy is almost an archetype. Reminds me of a person I've worked with in that role who was also associated with a similar-ish company. It really paints the con-game side of all this.

2. A deeper point (and worth the read for me) was the author's thinking about how all this didn't fit existing needs and workflows and then has a chilling thought: "It’s possible that the market for a user-hostile data system that inaccurately predicts the future and turns its human operators into automatons exists after all, and is large." You can make an argument that this kind of thing has already happened in modern customer service and, with greater negative impact, in healthcare. I.e. where the tail of easy metrics and saleable endpoints ends up wagging the dog of quality.

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