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Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

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Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#51

Post by amelius »

patrickaljord wrote: post #16
amelius wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or add a large tax to flying that pays for the development of green solutions.

This way only the super rich will be able to fly.

I think it will reduce the amount of flights of average people, not eliminate them. Flying will become more special, that's for sure.

The whole flying experience was a lot better in the old days, when indeed flying was special.

Also, remember that still most people on this planet can't afford to fly (i.e., even under current conditions).

Finally, I wouldn't mind seeing less vacation pictures on Facebook, of the kind "look where I am now!"

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#52

Post by dreamcompiler »

bpicolo wrote: post #21
hyperpallium wrote: post #17

It's weird, recently a solar plane circumnavigated the globe, but got very little publicity.

You can't scale up solar power to an aircraft carrying significant passengers / cargo.

You can't do it with cars, either. Solar-powered cars are definitely a thing [1], but they're purely research vehicles. At 20% efficiency, PV cells will never power a practical car any consumer would want to buy. Nor would such cars likely be road-worthy on normal highways.

The engineering and physics challenges are even tougher for passenger aircraft. It ain't gonna happen.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunraycer

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#53

Post by Shivetya »

savrajsingh wrote: post #25

It’s just a question of the energy density of batteries vs. fuel. We need a couple more battery breakthroughs before we get a fully electric commercial airliner.

pretty much what many in motorcycling are waiting to see happen. a hundred and at most hundred fifty but that requires judicious use of acceleration and speed. cars and trucks can carry the mass but if anything screams "this tech isn't there yet" it is the weight to range ratio we have now in cars.

yeah we can build them but looking back twenty years from now should be really interesting

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#54

Post by [deleted] »

taf2 wrote: post #50
pjc50 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Channel Tunnel cost ~£200m per mile. The Atlantic is ~4000 miles across. That implies the Atlantic crossing would cost £800bn, slightly more than a trillion dollars and roughly the cost of the Iraq war and occupation.

Not sure the cost would be linear either since the Atlantic floor is probably deeper in certain sections

[deleted]

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#55

Post by gsnedders »

jopsen wrote: post #15

From an engineering perspective how much harder would be to do a cross Atlantic high speed rail: Norway Canada ? Politically, it would probably be possible due to cost and risks.

Even at 350km/h, you're talking an 18 hour train journey. It's just too far, really.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#56

Post by bdonlan »

achamayou wrote: post #31
cm2187 wrote: post #24

As a first step, they could make at least the take off and landing electric, that would help a lot with the noise and pollution around cities, i.e. where people live. I guess the batteries could be recharged during the flight for landing.

Now that electromagnetic catapults are becoming a thing, perhaps they can be adapted for airliner takeoff. One supposed benefit is the ability to adjust the acceleration profile to reduce airframe fatigue, and probably improve crew comfort at the same time. If it's smooth enough for passengers, it'd save carrying quite a bit of fuel and batteries. I would have thought landing to be far less energy intensive (except p…

Although missed landings are uncommon in commercial service, every flight has to carry enough fuel for multiple missed landings, just in case.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#57

Post by zeusk »

whitepoplar wrote: post #49
zeusk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landings are mostly idle power until they lower landing gears in the last few miles; Take-off with fuel load is the most demanding leg and also the hardest to electrify.

...until they're not (e.g. failed landing, go-around)

Yes, my point being - there is no gain in electrifying that part and more risk in cases you mentioned.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#58

Post by DelaneyM »

The only plausible near-term renewable-energy flight option I can see is hydrogen fuel cells powering electric planes.

The equipment is heavy, but compressed liquid hydrogen is both producible from renewable sources and has a significantly higher energy/weight ratio than traditional fuel. It would require a few advances in fuel cell technology, but that's totally plausible.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#59

Post by mattnewton »

Shivetya wrote: post #53
savrajsingh wrote: post #25

It’s just a question of the energy density of batteries vs. fuel. We need a couple more battery breakthroughs before we get a fully electric commercial airliner.

pretty much what many in motorcycling are waiting to see happen. a hundred and at most hundred fifty but that requires judicious use of acceleration and speed. cars and trucks can carry the mass but if anything screams "this tech isn't there yet" it is the weight to range ratio we have now in cars. yeah we can build them but looking back twenty years from now should be really interesting

We’re getting there with motorcycles too- they are expensive but starting to get useable ranges with today’s battery tech: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/

Plus, they sound like pod racers from the future.

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