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Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

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Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#51

Post by forensic »

momoro wrote: post #13

I find myself entirely on Pincus' side. The author of the article mistakenly assumes that Zynga's value is in Farmville/Fishville/Poker. It's not. Pincus once said that if he could re-do tribe, he would instead build "a platform for testing ideas about how to make social networks," or something. With Zynga, Pincus has buildt an entire company mechanism for figuring out how to make money from FB games, I assume revolv…

Zynga is considered the winner not because it milks the most profit per customer but because they have the most popular games.

So really it's not so much about getting people to pay - it's about getting people to play. FarmVille is famous because 84 million people play it.

World of Warcraft still makes more money than FarmVille, but World of Warcraft has nowhere near that userbase.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#52

Post by forensic »

danilocampos wrote: post #46
danilocampos wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

@teej Very thought provoking. What a great conversation. I wish I had a clearer vision on the next step for social games. I honestly do. Sadly I think it'll be a long, iterative process before that industry sorts out exactly how to make a genuinely compelling experience that fits into the very real confines and perceptions you described. Bits and pieces will shake out as true fun but it'll take time to see it cobbled…

It's not that no one knows how to make a truly magnificent social game. In fact there are many people who know exactly how to do it.

Right now the marketplace is too young to appreciate quality. The masterpieces are overlooked and the winners are whichever games are the loudest and most accessible.

That's how it will be until the public as a whole gets more experience in this area and develops a certain level of taste.

There was no equivalent to HBO or Mad Men back when TV was new. It took a long time for quality shows to make money - and even now The Wire was considered only a modest financial success.

Great art often makes no money. The better an artist you are, the more likely you are to die before your works are appreciated.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#53

Post by jwhitlark »

Keyframe wrote: post #16
lee wrote: post #9

To me this sounds like Zynga just took an idea that was already out there, improved upon it, and executed the marketing/business side of things better than their competitors. The blatant art rip-off is evil, but the methodology of "taking something proven, and making it better" is not. Apple does this all the time, and I don't fault them for it. For the HN crowd who "can't find an idea for a startup", maybe this is a…

There is kind of a proverb related to business here, which loosely translated says something like: "In a street where there are several bakeries, it is wise to open up another bakery." edit: I remembered that I have heard another version, with a different take: "In a street where there are several bakeries, next business that will open up will be a bakery" - I actually like that one more.

Kinda like the old punchline: "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you."

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#54

Post by bugschivers »

lee wrote: post #9

To me this sounds like Zynga just took an idea that was already out there, improved upon it, and executed the marketing/business side of things better than their competitors. The blatant art rip-off is evil, but the methodology of "taking something proven, and making it better" is not. Apple does this all the time, and I don't fault them for it. For the HN crowd who "can't find an idea for a startup", maybe this is a…

As someone who actually played farmville at least from quite early on, and the competitor that they copied, I can tell you that they didn't emulate, they copied EVERYTHING.

The entire interface was identical, right down to the little people that depicted your sex, everything was identical, the layout, the images, the user interface, everything.

I will give them a grudging credit for being able to copy everything with more style, but I have to say as a user it was very confusing to see a game, pitched as a NEW game, that was identical in every respect to the competitor.

I have NEVER seen such blatant copying, and it was the same with many other games, they weren't "inspired by", they were image for image, ui for ui replicas.

I did play Farmville for a while, but they just don't know how to make these games compelling, and I lost interest.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with taking an idea and making it your own, but to take someone's work and copy it almost verbatim, that seems pretty low to me.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#56

Post by chrischen »

Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #21
Keyframe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is kind of a proverb related to business here, which loosely translated says something like: "In a street where there are several bakeries, it is wise to open up another bakery." edit: I remembered that I have heard another version, with a different take: "In a street where there are several bakeries, next business that will open up will be a bakery" - I actually like that one more.

It is wiser however to open a bakery in a street where there are none but a bakery is needed.

If there are no bakeries there, you might also ask yourself why that is.

If there's a secret hidden market somewhere well the hard part isn't starting a business there, it's finding it!

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#57

Post by MartinCron »

danilocampos wrote: post #28
eavc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high-profile "social" games are just really, super casual games that can be attached to something like Facebook. The fact that they're not fun is part of why they are successful. You're just kind of trivially there, so you don't feel dorky and you don't feel like you're wasting too much time, only a moment. All online multi-player video games are "social" games, but most of them aren't hyper-casual and can't be b…

Yes, and that's an important observation. I'm not willing to accept that it's impossible to create a legitimately enjoyable game experience in the confines of the short attention span Facebook model, though. Scrabble, for example, lends itself perfectly to asynchronous, light, casual play (cf Scrabulous, Words with Friends). But it's legitimately fun at the same time. You're rewarded for imaginative approaches to sol…

Stop making horseshit, start building something fun. It's possible. It's just a little bit harder.

For what it's worth, that's exactly what I'm planning on doing :)

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#58

Post by MartinCron »

moultano wrote: post #50
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Can we stop using the phrase "flyover country?" I and many others find it offensive. (Unless you're using it ironically, in which case, carry on, but I don't think you are.) Middle-aged women in boring desk jobs aren't that different in the center of the country from anywhere else. There are a lot of smart people and cool things to see there too.

I totally agree, I find it very condescending, and I'm not in what one generally considers flyover country.

I'm in Seattle, I guess you would fly over here if you were going from Boise, ID to Forks, WA.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#59

Post by MartinCron »

lee wrote: post #9

To me this sounds like Zynga just took an idea that was already out there, improved upon it, and executed the marketing/business side of things better than their competitors. The blatant art rip-off is evil, but the methodology of "taking something proven, and making it better" is not. Apple does this all the time, and I don't fault them for it. For the HN crowd who "can't find an idea for a startup", maybe this is a…

It's classic second-mover advantage business. Not only do you know what works and what doesn't, you get the benefits that the technology is cheaper and easier and better now than it was years ago.

I've often thought of all of the slow-moving entrenched companies that could just have everything taken out from under them by a good hungry team using modern tools and techniques. As long as you're not actively producing new legacy code, you should be able to catch up in terms of product sophistication pretty quickly.

That's not to say one could build FarmVille in a regular weekend, it would have to be a 3-day weekend.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#60

Post by MartinCron »

momoro wrote: post #13

I find myself entirely on Pincus' side. The author of the article mistakenly assumes that Zynga's value is in Farmville/Fishville/Poker. It's not. Pincus once said that if he could re-do tribe, he would instead build "a platform for testing ideas about how to make social networks," or something. With Zynga, Pincus has buildt an entire company mechanism for figuring out how to make money from FB games, I assume revolv…

The value in Zynga is that it beat those 300 other companies.

That's Zynga's value to Zynga. Not Zynga's value to anyone else.

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