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Sunsetting Tor Messenger

blog.torproject.org

51–60 of 71 posts

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something about Bloom Filters or PGP Signatures or something, I dunno Would this not defeat the purpose? Once an individual was tied to a unique piece of data, they'd be tied to all data in the stream. I think such a system would definitely require guaranteed expiration (impossible?). Or some sort of rotating keys or the metadata piece would still be uniquely identifying. I like this idea, as a concept, but I have…

rickycook responded to this part with a proposal, but I have my own take on some of it: For the "tied to a unique piece of data," that's why I want Bob to download lots of messages, hiding the fact that the person at 14.85.101.86 is the user with the recipient ID of ntULzh2AeEgPH9bKxrn3gUL. Bob should also be rotating his IDs all the time. Maybe they're single-use. And if Bob wants Alice to be able to send him messag…

That makes a lot of sense to me.

I wonder if there's a cryptographically secure way to build a known "stream" of one-use tokens (addresses, if you will) based on known "public key." For metadata security, you only hand that public key out to those you trust.

Another thought is the ability to attempt decoding of every message (as you already alluded to). Encode some well-known bytes at the beginning of every message and see if your key can decode and match them. I'm not certain that protects against metadata snooping, since I don't understand the cryptography enough to know if that well-known text would always be the same for a target private key.

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#52

Would like to read, but it looks like my work is blocking access to torproject.org. I had not realized that this sort of blocking was in place. Gauntlet thrown. My project for today is now to gain access to Torproject on my work machine. Bonus points for installing and running Tor without elevated privileges.

I'm sure you know, but check with your sysadmin if that's ok. You don't want to trigger some kind of IDS/IPS and alarm people for no reason.

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#54

I think about trying to hide the metadata of who is communicating... I wonder about a public stream of end-to-end encrypted messages. Anyone can add a message to the stream. Everyone reads all of the messages, and tries to decrypt all of them. There are lots of variants to this, lots of ways to optimize it, probably lots of ways to implement it. But that's the core idea. One variant is that what everyone downloads is…

I believe there is a Usenet newsgroup, somewhere under alt.binaries, that's effectively a numbers station: it's just GPG-encrypted (but not signed) blobs with no titles. Anyone can post, anyone can listen, everyone has to download everything to figure out which things they can personally decrypt.

Sadly, googling related keywords doesn't seem to pull up the name of the newsgroup. I believe I read about it during a discussion on a Tor onion-site forum, on "why people keep getting caught doing illegal things on Tor, and what real OPSEC looks like."

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#55

Would like to read, but it looks like my work is blocking access to torproject.org. I had not realized that this sort of blocking was in place. Gauntlet thrown. My project for today is now to gain access to Torproject on my work machine. Bonus points for installing and running Tor without elevated privileges.

Is it a DNS block, change DNS to 8.8.8.8 (Google) or somesuch?

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#56
post #54

I think about trying to hide the metadata of who is communicating... I wonder about a public stream of end-to-end encrypted messages. Anyone can add a message to the stream. Everyone reads all of the messages, and tries to decrypt all of them. There are lots of variants to this, lots of ways to optimize it, probably lots of ways to implement it. But that's the core idea. One variant is that what everyone downloads is…

I believe there is a Usenet newsgroup, somewhere under alt.binaries, that's effectively a numbers station: it's just GPG-encrypted (but not signed) blobs with no titles. Anyone can post, anyone can listen, everyone has to download everything to figure out which things they can personally decrypt. Sadly, googling related keywords doesn't seem to pull up the name of the newsgroup. I believe I read about it during a dis…

If someone could find a link to this that would be incredible

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#57
post #54

I think about trying to hide the metadata of who is communicating... I wonder about a public stream of end-to-end encrypted messages. Anyone can add a message to the stream. Everyone reads all of the messages, and tries to decrypt all of them. There are lots of variants to this, lots of ways to optimize it, probably lots of ways to implement it. But that's the core idea. One variant is that what everyone downloads is…

I believe there is a Usenet newsgroup, somewhere under alt.binaries, that's effectively a numbers station: it's just GPG-encrypted (but not signed) blobs with no titles. Anyone can post, anyone can listen, everyone has to download everything to figure out which things they can personally decrypt. Sadly, googling related keywords doesn't seem to pull up the name of the newsgroup. I believe I read about it during a dis…

I think you're thinking of Mixmaster: http://mixmaster.sourceforge.net/faq.shtml

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#59

We are building https://www.stealthy.im , decentralized, encrypted messaging with WebRTC. Would love your thoughts & feedback on how we could better meet your needs!

What is your thought on WebRTC exposing user IP addresses?

https://www.ovpn.com/en/blog/webrtc-might-expose-your-ip-add...

Re: Sunsetting Tor Messenger

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rickycook responded to this part with a proposal, but I have my own take on some of it: For the "tied to a unique piece of data," that's why I want Bob to download lots of messages, hiding the fact that the person at 14.85.101.86 is the user with the recipient ID of ntULzh2AeEgPH9bKxrn3gUL. Bob should also be rotating his IDs all the time. Maybe they're single-use. And if Bob wants Alice to be able to send him messag…

That makes a lot of sense to me. I wonder if there's a cryptographically secure way to build a known "stream" of one-use tokens (addresses, if you will) based on known "public key." For metadata security, you only hand that public key out to those you trust. Another thought is the ability to attempt decoding of every message (as you already alluded to). Encode some well-known bytes at the beginning of every message a…

> wonder if there's a cryptographically secure way to build a known "stream" of one-use tokens (addresses, if you will) based on known "public key."

This is what Bitcoin's BIP-47[1] does, but you can hand that "public key" to anyone[2]. The communication layer in this case is the Bitcoin blockchain.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0047.mediawi...

[2] https://paynym.is/

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