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Being frugal is for the rich

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Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#51

Post by mr_spothawk »

gowld wrote: post #26
tjpaudio wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

City-based salary adjustments are really something only educated professionals get, low-wage earners are screwed in big cities. I think also it will shock you how much every day items are compared to Europe. For one, public transportation is not available to most of America. So you have to have a car and car insurance, thats hundreds of dollars more per month right there. Cellphone service costs 3x as much as anywher…

> City-based salary adjustments are really something only educated professionals get, That's not entirely true. In many cities, minimum wage is substantially higher ($12-$15/hr) than the Federal minimum ($7.25/hr) > in big cities > So you have to have a car and car insurance Not in big cities.

Phoenix is pretty big. You could very easily spend 2 hours getting halfway across it on a bus.

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#52

Post by athenot »

gowld wrote: post #23
anigbrowl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. The 'frugal culture' is selling the idea that this is the road to economic self-sufficiency while omitting or glossing over other significant information, like having a very healthy income stream to begin with. If you're poor, being frugal is very unlikely to lift you out of poverty. That doesn't mean frugality is bad, but that marketing is as the key to financial stability is deceptive.

If you're near poor, being frugal will prevent you from falling into poverty. There are many people who have good jobs, earning $50k-$100k per year, saving nothing (or negative!), and then losing those jobs, and then collapsing into the downward spiral of poverty and homelessness.

You're raising an an interesting point: in the US, it's possible to be near poor without really feeling it... until what you describe ends up happening.

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#53

Post by throwaway84742 »

bsder wrote: post #34
throwaway84742 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most young people do need to be more thoughtful about their money, though. And the economy as a whole is, by multiple different metrics, the best it’s ever been. It’s just that this greatness needs to be spread a bit wider. In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Now is a good time to do it. You are responsible for your own s…

> In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Is it tight? I see very few occupations with rising wages. That's the REAL test for a tight labor market. Let me be anecdotal for a moment ... I was at a conference recently where the companies had a panel session complaining about getting more people into the business. Unlike most so…

Wages are rising at the highest rate since 2009: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582641530....

And black unemployment is at historic lows a well.

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#54

Post by michaelbuckbee »

The word missing from this discussion is "structural" - there are deep structural changes to how the job market and economy now works that limit the economic prospects of millennials (as a group) in ways that can't readily be overcome with thriftiness and hard work.

Here's an excerpt of the article that really clarified this for me:

"Thirty years ago, she says, you could walk into any hotel in America and everyone in the building, from the cleaners to the security guards to the bartenders, was a direct hire, each worker on the same pay scale and enjoying the same benefits as everyone else. Today, they’re almost all indirect hires, employees of random, anonymous contracting companies: Laundry Inc., Rent-A-Guard Inc., Watery Margarita Inc. In 2015, the Government Accountability Office estimated that 40 percent of American workers were employed under some sort of “contingent” arrangement like this—from barbers to midwives to nuclear waste inspectors to symphony cellists. Since the downturn, the industry that has added the most jobs is not tech or retail or nursing. It is “temporary help services”—all the small, no-brand contractors who recruit workers and rent them out to bigger companies."

from: http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millenni...

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#55

Post by zdragnar »

logfromblammo wrote: post #30

I would also make the economic argument that a rich person that is still frugal is actively exacerbating income inequality. If Warren Buffett is indeed still paying only $3 for breakfast every day, that's giving a big middle finger to the economy. Money is half of the circulatory system of the economy. When it pools too long in one spot, it clots, and then a thrombosed clot can cause damage somewhere else. He really…

Why do you think spending more than he needs or wants to on breakfast is the most valuable use of his money? Surely re-investing it or other expenses will help far more people.

As a sidenote, if you are spending all of your money after paying your bills off, it sounds like you're not saving anything, which is a recipe for disaster. You should most certainly not consider such a person to be miserly.

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#56

Post by mr_spothawk »

neogodless wrote: post #13

Over the past few weeks, a long-running thread has been building on the Mr. Money Mustache forums at https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what'... (Mr. Money Mustache isn't too different from the FrugalWoods. They never made quite so much money, but they did have good careers. Still, there's a similar message to be heard.) I get that the high income and extravagant Vermont estate are a turn off for…

I think a big part of frugality is intentionality.

and intentionally is the root skill necessary to a place that isn't dependent on "the system".

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#57

Post by toasterlovin »

gowld wrote: post #29
neogodless wrote: post #13

Over the past few weeks, a long-running thread has been building on the Mr. Money Mustache forums at https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what'... (Mr. Money Mustache isn't too different from the FrugalWoods. They never made quite so much money, but they did have good careers. Still, there's a similar message to be heard.) I get that the high income and extravagant Vermont estate are a turn off for…

beware of "frugal / FIRE bloggers" because they make their money blogging, and aren't financially independent (last time I checked, MMM was a working carpenter/contractor, while claiming he's "retired" because he "enjoys his work"), which is not an avenue open to their entire audience.

He is a carpenter because he saved enough money as a software engineer to do whatever the fuck he wanted and he wanted to build shit with his hands. Does financial independence somehow only count if you opt sit on your ass all day?

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#58

Post by mr_spothawk »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #8

So some people in a particular generational cohort write books and blogs about their financial independence, but this is bad because it trivializes the actual struggles of other people in their cohort who aren't financially independent? Oh, the horrors!

they're also patently unaware of the class struggle their authorship persists! they should be deplatformed.

/s

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#59

Post by xboxnolifes »

EnFinlay wrote: post #36
logfromblammo wrote: post #30

I would also make the economic argument that a rich person that is still frugal is actively exacerbating income inequality. If Warren Buffett is indeed still paying only $3 for breakfast every day, that's giving a big middle finger to the economy. Money is half of the circulatory system of the economy. When it pools too long in one spot, it clots, and then a thrombosed clot can cause damage somewhere else. He really…

I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with you.

second this

Re: Being frugal is for the rich

#60

Post by throwaway84742 »

danudey wrote: post #49
throwaway84742 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most young people do need to be more thoughtful about their money, though. And the economy as a whole is, by multiple different metrics, the best it’s ever been. It’s just that this greatness needs to be spread a bit wider. In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Now is a good time to do it. You are responsible for your own s…

The economy is the best its ever been, but wealth inequality is the worst its ever been. The cost of living has gone up far, far faster than income has, while wages have stagnated or dropped, meaning people these days are earning less money and have more expenses than before. To hear someone who was making $10/hour out of college and bought a home for $40,000 say that the reason millennials can't buy a home today is…

Demand more money. You’re now in a position to do so.
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