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1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

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Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#51

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #40
tekklloneer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early this on, the process of building physically accurate "fake humans" was not really possible. Bear tests were probably more an early proof of viability than anything else. The bears survived, proving that humans wouldn't be completely annihilated. Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development. It's unfortunate but a historical footnote reminding us of…

> Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development Considering that the endpoint is machines killing actual people, it would be the height of hypocrisy in my books for them to care about "animal testing cruelty".

[deleted]

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#52

Post by sitkack »

coldtea wrote: post #39
sitkack wrote: post #13

This is horrible science. A bear surviving an ejection is nothing like a human surviving an ejection.

Sadly we weren't there to inform them of that /s (Seriously, who said it has to be exactly "like" it? We use crash test dummies for testing car crash behavior, and they're nothing "like" humans either).

Crash test dummies are at least a standard.

Maybe people were misconstruing "horrible science" as something other than low quality science? HN while being a seething pit of criticality, it has a low tolerance of anything that questions science or the march of technology.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#53

Post by coldtea »

sitkack wrote: post #52
coldtea wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly we weren't there to inform them of that /s (Seriously, who said it has to be exactly "like" it? We use crash test dummies for testing car crash behavior, and they're nothing "like" humans either).

Crash test dummies are at least a standard. Maybe people were misconstruing "horrible science" as something other than low quality science? HN while being a seething pit of criticality, it has a low tolerance of anything that questions science or the march of technology.

>Maybe people were misconstruing "horrible science" as something other than low quality science?

It would only be "low quality" if it didn't fit their purpose. Which was some rough estimate, not to get the final word of whether humans survive an ejection.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#54

Post by musage »

coldtea wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That we do even worse is really no excuse.

Who said an excuse is needed? That's what nature is. Species using other species for food, for starters...

You're saying this on HN, where people get shadowbanned for saying "peep". Instead of, say, advocating for people just murdering each other being the norm.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#55

Post by bediger4000 »

The "Wings Over The Rockies" museum in Denver, CO, has one of these escape capsules, plus a little display about development and testing. The display does mention that they used bears in testing of the capsules.

If you're at all interested in military or naval aviation, you should visit Wings Over the Rockies. It's like nothing else.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#56

Post by eeZah7Ux »

userbinator wrote: post #46
Pxtl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the reality of testing. You have no idea how many animals died to produce every drug you've ever taken: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1676-5-horrifyin...

No kidding. If it weren't for the animals it'd be us . It's always ironic to see animal rights advocates' responses when they are asked if they'd rather volunteer to be the research subjects instead. They are surprisingly reluctant... This tends to make them ponder a bit more: "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today."

> "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today."

That might apply to some life-saving drugs.

Cosmetics and weapons are not medicines - far from it.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#57

Post by 0xfeba »

fao_ wrote: post #5
valuearb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bear ain't going to treat you nearly as well when the tables are turned.

... that's really no excuse? 1. How many animals have humans driven to extinction now? Perhaps they would not be extinct were people to treat them with greater respect. 2. If you treat an animal with respect the tables will never have an opportunity to turn, because you won't be blatantly trespassing on it's turf.

This reeks of naturalistic fallacy. Humans are bad because we exploit animals. Yet, humans are animals, and this is what animals do given the chance. We don't need an excuse.

Just because we can introspect and consider the ethical state of things doesn't mean we have to abandon all progress and be an agrarian society.

Can we improve? Sure. I don't like to see anything needlessly suffer, but a few bears being killed in the name of science is a drop in the bucket to other concerns.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#58

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #56
userbinator wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding. If it weren't for the animals it'd be us . It's always ironic to see animal rights advocates' responses when they are asked if they'd rather volunteer to be the research subjects instead. They are surprisingly reluctant... This tends to make them ponder a bit more: "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today."

> "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today." That might apply to some life-saving drugs. Cosmetics and weapons are not medicines - far from it.

If it weren't for some weapons, you might not be alive today either.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#59

Post by mgkimsal »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #58
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today." That might apply to some life-saving drugs. Cosmetics and weapons are not medicines - far from it.

If it weren't for some weapons, you might not be alive today either.

If it weren't for some cosmetics, many of us might not be alive today either.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#60

Post by uhtred »

coldtea wrote: post #40
tekklloneer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early this on, the process of building physically accurate "fake humans" was not really possible. Bear tests were probably more an early proof of viability than anything else. The bears survived, proving that humans wouldn't be completely annihilated. Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development. It's unfortunate but a historical footnote reminding us of…

> Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development Considering that the endpoint is machines killing actual people, it would be the height of hypocrisy in my books for them to care about "animal testing cruelty".

By "actual people" do you mean "who cares about animals dying in horrendous ways when people will be dying?"
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