Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal • Hacker News Board

Re: Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal

#51

Post by aluhut » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #43

aluhut wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not have to be active in Occupy or any of the other groups to hear the term. Hell, my mother knows is and won't connect anything good with it. The main reason is what happened 2008 and for those who cared a little bit: deregulation. People who take neoliberalism are not necessary anti free market. Those would be the extremists again. > They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of…

FWIW, my mother certainly doesn't know what it is, and I just asked my wife and she has no idea. I'd heard the term in the rehabilitated, Sam Bowman sense, but had to go look up the Wikipedia page to see what the controversy was about. I don't particularly identify with any of the labels of mainstream (is there such a thing anymore?) political movements. It's a really common mistake to assume that the people you hang…

Alright, let's say here in Europe...although that doesn't make you and your wife look quite good here. I guess this is where the Europe vs. US memes grow. I mean, do you watch news? How could you have missed what were the poster words back then?

However,

> They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of their own customers, who bring their own baggage associated with it), but they'll be sympathetic to the ideas.

still stands here. Just from a quick lookup on wikipedia, you got to this statement. So if this is even obvious to you, we don't really have to talk about any kind of rehabilitation. The real issue would be some terribly bad informed people.

Re: Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal

#52

Post by aluhut » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

miracle2k wrote: post #42

aluhut wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not have to be active in Occupy or any of the other groups to hear the term. Hell, my mother knows is and won't connect anything good with it. The main reason is what happened 2008 and for those who cared a little bit: deregulation. People who take neoliberalism are not necessary anti free market. Those would be the extremists again. > They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of…

The term is used in Germany as a battle cry against the enemies of social market democracy, perceived or real. I don't think it's a thing in the US.

Occupy came from the US the crash happened there first. But yes, as we see above, there are people who probably don't watch news or watch selective news? I don't know. It's weird.

Good we have the Öffentlich Rechtlicher Rundfunk I guess ;)

Re: Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal

#53

Post by nostrademons » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

aluhut wrote: post #51

nostrademons wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, my mother certainly doesn't know what it is, and I just asked my wife and she has no idea. I'd heard the term in the rehabilitated, Sam Bowman sense, but had to go look up the Wikipedia page to see what the controversy was about. I don't particularly identify with any of the labels of mainstream (is there such a thing anymore?) political movements. It's a really common mistake to assume that the people you hang…

Alright, let's say here in Europe...although that doesn't make you and your wife look quite good here. I guess this is where the Europe vs. US memes grow. I mean, do you watch news? How could you have missed what were the poster words back then? However, > They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of their own customers, who bring their own baggage associated with it), but they'll be symp…

Both my wife and I watch (well, read) plenty of news. Sometimes even German news. Neither of us particularly care how we'd look in Germany or the rest of Europe, though, since we have no intention of living there.

I'm reminded of something that I think I read here on Hacker News: if you want to see how you're being manipulated, read another country's newspapers. Not because they tell the truth, but because the propaganda in them is directed at the country's own inhabitants, and so it'll have no emotional importance for you. I look at the term "neoliberal" and view it neutrally, because the propaganda around it never really caught on in the U.S. out of certain very niche circles.

There are undoubtedly similar terms & issues in the U.S. where we get very much up in arms but an outsider would be "what's the big deal?" You could probably tell me what they are a lot better than I could (assuming you read U.S. news media), but I'd bet that things like "single payer", "gun control", and "social democracy" make the list, where half the U.S. population considers them a dirty word while most of the rest of the developed world is like "Duh, these are obviously good ideas. Why do you kill your own citizens?"

Re: Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal

#54

Post by pasabagi » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

adwhit wrote: post #8

gt_ wrote: post #3

Interesting to see individuals show pride in the “neoliberal” label, which is usually a stand-in for “complacent”.

It is very peculiar. Whether it is an attempt to "reclaim" the word or not, that subreddit's usage of "neoliberal" bears little relation it's usage as defined in books such as David Harvey's 'A Brief History of Neoliberalism', where it is most commonly associated with privatization, financialisation, tax cuts, the retrenchment of social welfare and rapid growth in inequality. Critically, the neoliberal state is not '…

I think the reason is, for the first time in about forty years, neo-liberalism is really under threat. It used to be that neo-liberalism was so dominant as a political creed that it wasn't politics - it was reality. For better or worse, Trump on one side, and Bernie on the other, overturned that. So now, people identify as neo-liberals - while in the past, I imagine, there wouldn't be any point.

Re: Patrick Collison AMA on r/neoliberal

#55

Post by aluhut » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #53

aluhut wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, let's say here in Europe...although that doesn't make you and your wife look quite good here. I guess this is where the Europe vs. US memes grow. I mean, do you watch news? How could you have missed what were the poster words back then? However, > They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of their own customers, who bring their own baggage associated with it), but they'll be symp…

Both my wife and I watch (well, read) plenty of news. Sometimes even German news. Neither of us particularly care how we'd look in Germany or the rest of Europe, though, since we have no intention of living there. I'm reminded of something that I think I read here on Hacker News: if you want to see how you're being manipulated, read another country's newspapers. Not because they tell the truth, but because the propag…

I don't consider myself or my mother a person that would have gone to the Occupy events back then.

> things like "single payer", "gun control", and "social democracy"

You may be aware that many over here are interested in US politics and culture. It's a historical thing but it's also quite entertaining. I can say that I'm more interested and know more about what's going on in the US then in France or the Netherlands. At least most of the time. We are aware that those three things are being perceived differently by pretty much half of your population. This is nothing abstract here.